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echo:	nthelp
to:	Adam Flinton
from:	Rich
date:	2003-03-08 12:38:42
subject:	Re: Windows Server 2003 pricing
From: "Rich" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0335_01C2E56F.A6E23B90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable suse also offers only an annual subscription and costs more than the = Windows solution. Rich "Adam Flinton" wrote in message = news:3e6a5091{at}w3.nls.net... Red Hat are but one distrib. Adam "Rich" wrote in message news:3e6a49b8{at}w3.nls.net... I didn't include a red hat perpetual license because they don't = have a non-subscription server product. Otherwise I would have. Rich "Adam Flinton" wrote in message news:3e69c187{at}w3.nls.net... Humm....OK then why are you comparing RedHat stronghold etc vs = Windows perpetual licence? Why not choose a std Red Hat purchase (much as the Windows puchase = is a std Win2KS purchase)? What is the perpetual licence cost for Red Hat? How does that = compare to the perpetual licence for Win2K3S WE? Adam "Rich" wrote in message news:3e6946db{at}w3.nls.net... And so we come full circle. Let's exclude what you pay to EDS or = IBMGS even though it likely dwarfs the cost of the software. You have = still failed to refute or even respond to an annual subscription for red = hat's solution costing more than four to six times the cost of a perpetual license for the Microsoft solution. Rich "Adam Flinton" wrote in message news:3e694375$1{at}w3.nls.net... EDS, IBMGS et al will hold the relationship with MS or Red Hat = that's why you pay em. Adam "Rich" wrote in message news:3e694186{at}w3.nls.net... Can you remind us why you replied to this thread if you have = nothing to add? Rich "Adam Flinton" wrote in message news:3e693e89$1{at}w3.nls.net... I'm not making any claims. I am stating what I know. Re support for a production web server...go ask Yahoo or Amazon = what they pay. I could tell you about the ones I know such as ocado (http://www.ocado.com/) but frankly I'm not going to coz I don't = have their permission to do so. Adam "Rich" wrote in message news:3e6933f0{at}w3.nls.net... You are the one making claims. Spell out the support level = you believe is necessary for a production web server and the cost of this = support. Remember we are discussing the claim that one solution is = cheaper than another where Red Hat's price for their linux plus stronghold = solution costs more than four to six times as much for a one year subscription = than Windows Server 2003 Web Edition costs for a perpetual license. Rich "Adam Flinton" wrote in message news:3e692e38{at}w3.nls.net... What? EDS/CapGem/IBM GS Support or direct support from the = distrib owner? Adam "Rich" wrote in message news:3e68c854{at}w3.nls.net... OK. How much does this cost? Rich "Adam Flinton" wrote in message news:3e6854e1{at}w3.nls.net... I don't know any major comp (there may be some, I jus don't = know them) which relies directly upon MS for support. EDS yes...CapGemini = yes, IBM GS yes....direct MS support? However I do know a couple which do have a direct channel = into the distrib comp whose distrib they're using (in Europe Suse are = especailly good at this). Adam Rich "Robert Comer" wrote in message news:3e681017$1{at}w3.nls.net... > Can you be specific instead of hot air and hand waving? I just stated my opinion, that's all. I'm not here to list = out everything possible. > It's well known that Linux has less functionality. I'm not so sure that can be said any more, but no matter I wasn't just talking overall OS functionality, but what you can do with = that specific version of Windows Server -- with no Cal's, that means no = NT authentication, files serving, or print serving, and I assume no domain capabilities -- that's 4 areas that Windows is strong on and Linux needs = to catch up, yet I can put together a Linux box that does all 5 of these = things for a LOT less money. >If you want to roll your own it can cost less for Linux, assuming your time is worth >nothing. There's actually a decent amount of free support out = there, and you don't have to roll your own version, you can use someone's distribution. >If you want to use a supported version, like from RedHat, expect to spend much more for your annual subscription. They will sell = you a subscription to red hat linux advanced server for $1499 per year.< I would never pay Red Hat that much, they don't have = enough to offer support wise. I have spent that much on Microsoft = products several times over up to now, but things are a changin. I might add = that Microsoft is quite costly for aftermarket support and I don't buy that either. >If you want their supported enterprise level web server = you are going to pay another $395 to $895 annually. That's more than four = to six times more expensive than the Windows Server 2003 solution.< I got it beat -- I have a server here at home (always = learning) that cost $0 for the Linux and about $200 for the hardware. (I also = have a Linux client PC here that I paid $99 for and I'm not going to do that = again, at least not this distribution.) - Bob Comer "Rich" wrote in message news:3e67d5e4$1{at}w3.nls.net... Can you be specific instead of hot air and hand waving? It's well known that Linux has less functionality. If = you want to roll your own it can cost less for Linux, assuming your time is = worth nothing. If you want to use a supported version, like from RedHat, = expect to spend much more for your annual subscription. They will sell = you a subscription to red hat linux advanced server for $1499 per year. If = you want their supported enterprise level web server you are going to pay another $395 to $895 annually. That's more than four to six times more expensive than the Windows Server 2003 solution. Rich "Robert Comer" wrote in = message news:3e67b7d1{at}w3.nls.net... Less functionality, higher cost. Ease of use is a draw, = but it would have to be even cheaper just for a web server. - Bob Comer "Rich" wrote in message = news:3e67b63f{at}w3.nls.net... By what criteria and how so? Rich "Robert Comer" wrote in = message news:3e67ae88$1{at}w3.nls.net... That's not good enough to compete with Linux. - Bob Comer "Geo." wrote in message news:3e67a4e1$1{at}w3.nls.net... > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/29567.html > > There will be no price increases (as such) when Microsoft ships its next > server OS, Windows Server 2003, on April 24th, but = there will be a new > budget-priced version of the product aimed = squarely at the web server > market. Server 2003 Web Edition comes without = client access licences, with a > 2gig limit on memory, 2-way SMP, and is $399. > > ------=_NextPart_000_0335_01C2E56F.A6E23B90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable suse also offers only an = annual=20 subscription and costs more than the Windows solution. Rich "Adam Flinton" <adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com>">mailto:adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com">adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com> = wrote in=20 message news:3e6a5091{at}w3.nls.net...Re= d Hat=20 are but one distrib.Adam"Rich" <{at}> = wrote in=20 message news:3e6a49b8{at}w3.nls.net...&nbs= p; =20 I didn't include a red hat perpetual license because they don't have=20 anon-subscription server product. Otherwise I would=20 have.Rich "Adam Flinton" <adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com>">mailto:adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com">adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com> = wrote in=20 messagenews:3e69c187{at}w3.nls.net...&nbs= p;=20 Humm....OK then why are you comparing RedHat stronghold etc vs=20 Windows perpetual licence? Why not choose a std = Red Hat=20 purchase (much as the Windows puchase is astd Win2KS=20 purchase)? What is the perpetual licence cost for Red = Hat? How=20 does that compare tothe perpetual licence for Win2K3S=20 WE? Adam "Rich" <{at}> wrote in message = news:3e6946db{at}w3.nls.net...&nbs= p; =20 And so we come full circle. Let's exclude what you pay to EDS or = IBMGS even though it likely dwarfs the cost of the = software. =20 You have still failed to refute or even respond to an annual = subscription for red hat's solution costing more than four = to six=20 times the cost of a perpetuallicense for the Microsoft=20 solution. Rich "Adam Flinton" = <adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com>">mailto:adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com">adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com> = wrote in=20 message news:3e694375$1{at}w3.nls.net...= =20 EDS, IBMGS et al will hold the relationship with MS or Red Hat=20 that'swhy you pay = em. =20 Adam "Rich" <{at}> wrote in = message news:3e694186{at}w3.nls.net...&nbs= p; =20 Can you remind us why you replied to this thread if you have=20 nothingto add? =20 Rich "Adam Flinton" <adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com>">mailto:adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com">adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com> = wrote in=20 message news:3e693e89$1{at}w3.nls.net...= =20 I'm not making any claims. I am stating what I=20 know. Re support for a = production web=20 server...go ask Yahoo or Amazon what =20 they pay. I could tell you about the = ones I=20 know such as ocado (http://www.ocado.com/;)">http://www.ocado.com/http://www.ocado.com/">http://www.ocado.com/;) but frankly = I'm not=20 going to coz I don't have =20 their permission to do=20 so. =20 Adam "Rich" <{at}> wrote in = message=20 news:3e6933f0{at}w3.nls.net...&nbs= p; =20 You are the one making claims. Spell out the support level = you =20 believe is necessary for a = production web=20 server and the cost of this support. = Remember we are discussing the claim that one solution is cheaper=20 than another where Red Hat's price = for their=20 linux plus stronghold solution =20 costs more than four to six times as = much=20 for a one year subscription than =20 Windows Server 2003 Web Edition = costs for a=20 perpetual license. =20 Rich "Adam Flinton" = <adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com>">mailto:adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com">adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com> = wrote in=20 message news:3e692e38{at}w3.nls.net...&nbs= p; =20 What? EDS/CapGem/IBM GS Support or direct support from the=20 distrib =20 owner? =20 Adam "Rich" = <{at}> wrote=20 in message news:3e68c854{at}w3.nls.net...&nbs= p; =20 OK. How much does this=20 cost? =20 Rich "Adam = Flinton"=20 <adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com>=20">mailto:adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com">adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com>=20 wrote in message news:3e6854e1{at}w3.nls.net...= =20 I don't know any major comp (there may be some, I jus don't = know =20 them) =20 which relies = directly upon MS for support. EDS yes...CapGemini yes,=20 IBMGS =20 yes....direct MS=20 support? = However=20 I do know a couple which do have a direct channel into=20 the =20 distrib comp = whose=20 distrib they're using (in Europe Suse are=20 especaillygood =20 at =20 = this). = Adam = = Rich &= nbsp;=20 "Robert Comer" <bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>">mailto:bobcomer{at}mindspring.com">bobcomer{at}mindspring.com> = wrote in=20 message news:3e681017$1{at}w3.nls.net...= =20 > Can you be specific instead of hot air and hand=20 = waving? &nbs= p; =20 I just stated my opinion, that's all. I'm not here to list=20 out =20 = everything = ; =20 = possible. &n= bsp; =20 > It's well known that Linux has less=20 = functionality. &nb= sp; =20 I'm not so sure that can be said any more, but no matter=20 Iwasn't =20 = just = ;=20 talking overall OS functionality, but what you can do with=20 that =20 = specific &= nbsp;=20 version of Windows Server -- with no Cal's, that means no=20 NT =20 = authentication, = =20 files serving, or print serving, and I assume no=20 domain capabilities=20 = -- = that's 4 areas that Windows is strong on and Linux needs=20 tocatch =20 up, =20 yet =20 = I = can=20 put together a Linux box that does all 5 of these things=20 fora =20 LOT =20 = less = ;=20 = money. = ; =20 >If you want to roll your own it can cost less for=20 Linux,assuming =20 your =20 = time = ; is=20 worth=20 = >nothing. = ; =20 There's actually a decent amount of free support out there, = and =20 you =20 = don't &nbs= p;=20 have to roll your own version, you can use=20 = someone'sdistribution. &nb= sp; =20 >If you want to use a supported version, like from=20 RedHat,expect = to =20 = spend &nbs= p;=20 much more for your annual subscription. They will sell you=20 a =20 = subscription &nb= sp; =20 to red hat linux advanced server for $1499 per=20 = year.< &n= bsp; =20 I would never pay Red Hat that much, they don't have enough=20 to =20 = offer &nbs= p;=20 support wise. I have spent that much on Microsoft = products =20 several =20 = times &nbs= p;=20 over up to now, but things are a changin. I might add=20 that Microsoft = = is = quite=20 costly for aftermarket support and I don't buy=20 = thateither. &n= bsp; =20 >If you want their supported enterprise level web server you=20 are = going =20 = to = pay=20 another $395 to $895 annually. That's more than four to=20 six =20 times =20 = more = ;=20 expensive than the Windows Server 2003=20 = solution.< &nbs= p; =20 I got it beat -- I have a server here at home (always = learning) =20 that =20 cost =20 = $0 = for=20 the Linux and about $200 for the hardware. (I also have = a =20 Linux =20 = client &nb= sp;=20 PC here that I paid $99 for and I'm not going to do that=20 again,at =20 least =20 = not = this=20 = distribution.) &nb= sp; =20 - Bob=20 = Comer &nbs= p; =20 "Rich" <{at}> wrote in message news:3e67d5e4$1{at}w3.nls.net...= &= nbsp; =20 Can you be specific instead of hot air and hand=20 = waving? &nbs= p; =20 It's well known that Linux has less functionality. If=20 youwant =20 to =20 = roll = ;=20 your own it can cost less for Linux, assuming your time is=20 worth =20 = nothing. &= nbsp;=20 If you want to use a supported version, like from RedHat, = expect =20 to =20 = spend &nbs= p;=20 much more for your annual subscription. They will sell you=20 a =20 = subscription &nb= sp; =20 to red hat linux advanced server for $1499 per year. If=20 youwant =20 = their &nbs= p;=20 supported enterprise level web server you are going to=20 payanother =20 $395 =20 = to = $895=20 annually. That's more than four to six times=20 moreexpensive =20 than =20 = the = =20 Windows Server 2003=20 = solution. &n= bsp; =20 = Rich &= nbsp; =20 "Robert Comer" <bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>">mailto:bobcomer{at}mindspring.com">bobcomer{at}mindspring.com> = wrote in=20 = message &n= bsp;=20 news:3e67b7d1{at}w3.nls.net...&nbs= p; = ;=20 Less functionality, higher cost. Ease of use is a draw, but=20 it =20 would =20 = have = ; to=20 be even cheaper just for a web=20 = server. &nbs= p; =20 - Bob=20 = Comer &n= bsp; =20 "Rich" <{at}> wrote in message news:3e67b63f{at}w3.nls.net...&nbs= p; = ; =20 By what criteria and how=20 = so? &n= bsp; =20 = Rich &= nbsp; =20 "Robert Comer" <bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>">mailto:bobcomer{at}mindspring.com">bobcomer{at}mindspring.com> = wrote in=20 = message &n= bsp;=20 news:3e67ae88$1{at}w3.nls.net...= &= nbsp; =20 That's not good enough to compete with=20 = Linux. = ; =20 - Bob=20 = Comer &n= bsp; =20 "Geo." <georger{at}nls.net>">mailto:georger{at}nls.net">georger{at}nls.net> = wrote in=20 = message &n= bsp;=20 news:3e67a4e1$1{at}w3.nls.net...= &= nbsp; =20 > http://www.th" target="new">http://www.th=">http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/29567.html">http://www.th= eregister.co.uk/content/61/29567.html &nbs= p; = ;=20 = > = ; =20 > There will be no price increases (as such)=20 whenMicrosoft =20 ships =20 = its = =20 = next = ; =20 > server OS, Windows Server 2003, on April 24th, but=20 there will =20 be =20 = a =20 = new = =20 > budget-priced version of the product aimed squarely=20 atthe =20 = web = =20 = server &nb= sp; =20 > market. Server 2003 Web Edition comes without client =20 = access &nb= sp;=20 licences,=20 = with = ; =20 = a &n= bsp; =20 > 2gig limit on memory, 2-way SMP, and is=20 = $399. &nbs= p; =20 = > = ; =20 > ------=_NextPart_000_0335_01C2E56F.A6E23B90-- --- BBBS/NT v4.01 Flag-4 * Origin: Barktopia BBS Site http://HarborWebs.com:8081 (1:379/1.45) SEEN-BY: 633/267 270 @PATH: 379/1 633/267
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