From: "Robert Comer" 

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I made nothing up, notice the "no Cal's" part.  Of course you can
add = cal's and add all what I said, but it is extra cost.

- Bob Comer


  "Rich"  wrote in message news:3e68ca32{at}w3.nls.net...
     You did admit making stuff up.  You wrote in =
news://news.barkto.com/3e681017$1{at}w3.nls.net

    I'm not so sure that can be said any more, but no matter I wasn't =
just
    talking overall OS functionality, but what you can do with that =
specific
    version of Windows Server -- with no Cal's, that means no NT =
authentication,
    files serving, or print serving, and I assume no domain capabilities =
--
    that's 4 areas that Windows is strong on and Linux needs to catch =
up, yet I
    can put together a Linux box that does all 5 of these things for a =
LOT less
    money.

  I referred you to =
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/overview/default.ms=
px so that you can stop making things up and use real info if you want = to
criticize.  You have multiple times expressed no interest in visiting =
this site to avoid your making false statements.

  Rich

    "Robert Comer"  wrote in message =
news:3e68aa51{at}w3.nls.net...
    >   I didn't argue against your invalid assumptions.

    At least state them, if you can't even do that they don't exist.

    >You already admited you made stuff up.

    I did not.

    >You don't appear to have any interest in this.

    You're right, your argument style of late totally turns me off.  I =
am not
    nearly as much against you and Microsoft as you think I am...

    - Bob Comer



    "Rich"  wrote in message news:3e684a50{at}w3.nls.net...
       I didn't argue against your invalid assumptions.  You already =
admited you
    made stuff up.  I referred you to a reliable source of factual =
information.
    You don't appear to have any interest in this.  Maybe you would =
prefer to
    make false statements, which you now claim as an opinion only based =
on a
    fiction of your own imagination.  Of course you still haven't =
acknowledged
    that when you make up facts on which you base your opinions you =
should be
    honest and acknowledge that.

    Rich

    "Robert Comer"  wrote in message
    news:3e6835d9{at}w3.nls.net...
    >   It's not whether or not you are giving an opinion or not that =
was your
    major deception.

    LOL!  An opinion is not a deception.

    >  It was that your opinion was based on assumptions you made and =
not fact.

    And again, assumptions you have not argued against.

    >You just admitted that you made up what it was that you were =
comparing.

    I admitted no such thing.

    >Not that it wouldn't do you some good to prefix your opinions, as =
opposed
    to statements of fact, with "I believe" or "I feel".<

    I say it again, *ALL* I say here is opinion.  (It may be fact also, =
but it
    may not be, just not intentionally wrong.)

    >   In regard you your mention of propaganda, don't you think that =
this is a
    bit ironic given that your post to which I replied was propaganda =
and as you
    admitted based on a fiction of your own creation?<

    No, I don't as what I said wasn't propaganda -- to be using =
propaganda I'd
    have to have something to gain, I have nothing to gain by what I =
said.  You
    yourself know I use more Microsoft products than Linux, and I like a =
third
    platform (the AS/400) the best. As for the last part, I created no =
fiction,
    I STATED AN OPINION.

    - Bob Comer




    "Rich"  wrote in message news:3e682dfc{at}w3.nls.net...
    It's not whether or not you are giving an opinion or not that was =
your major
    deception.  It was that your opinion was based on assumptions you =
made and
    not fact. You just admitted that you made up what it was that you =
were
    comparing.  Not that it wouldn't do you some good to prefix your =
opinions,
    as opposed to statements of fact, with "I believe" or "I
feel".

       In regard you your mention of propaganda, don't you think that =
this is a
    bit ironic given that your post to which I replied was propaganda =
and as you
    admitted based on a fiction of your own creation?

    Rich

      "Robert Comer"  wrote in message
    news:3e6821ab$1{at}w3.nls.net...
      > If you are just making assumptions you should state that you are =
giving
    an
      opinion based on assumptions and not making a statement based on =
facts.<

      As I have stated before, when I say something I am stating an =
opinion, no
      more, no less, if you want to take everything I say as fact  (or =
false
      fact,) that is your choice, but I have no energy to argue such.  =
This is,
      after all, a discussion group, not a scientific journal of some =
kind.

      >It will avoid having your false statements pointed out.

      You haven't pointed out any...

      >If you care about facts, and I'm not sure you do, see

    =
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/overview/default.ms=
px.
      <

      You're wrong, I'm tired of reading Microsoft propaganda like that.

      >   As for your comments regarding the web edition's suitability =
for
      something other than web server, maybe you should take a moment =
and ask
    what
      the likely purpose is for something called the web edition.<

      Well duh -- I was comparing it to Linux and I can do cheaper and =
more with
      Linux, that's all I said.

      >   In regard to free support, do you mean posting to a newsgroup =
or some
      infamous IRC channel?  Is this what you use to support your =
critical
      systems?<

      More than just newsgroups, but, that's how I support all our =
systems, even
      the AS/400.  To phrase it another way, we have no software support
    contracts
      on anything in my department. (Not saying I wouldn't want them
    necessarily,
      but they didn't have sw support contracts under the old =
manager...)

      No IRC or IM though, I loath that kind of thing...

      - Bob Comer


      "Rich"  wrote in message news:3e681879{at}w3.nls.net...
         If you are just making assumptions you should state that you =
are giving
      an opinion based on assumptions and not making a statement based =
on facts.
      It will avoid having your false statements pointed out.  If you =
care about
      facts, and I'm not sure you do, see

    =
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/overview/default.ms=
px.

         As for your comments regarding the web edition's suitability =
for
      something other than web server, maybe you should take a moment =
and ask
    what
      the likely purpose is for something called the web edition.

         In regard to free support, do you mean posting to a newsgroup =
or some
      infamous IRC channel?  Is this what you use to support your =
critical
      systems?

      Rich

        "Robert Comer"  wrote in message
      news:3e681017$1{at}w3.nls.net...
        >  Can you be specific instead of hot air and hand waving?

        I just stated my opinion, that's all. I'm not here to list out
    everything
        possible.

        >   It's well known that Linux has less functionality.

        I'm not so sure that can be said any more, but no matter I =
wasn't just
        talking overall OS functionality, but what you can do with that =
specific
        version of Windows Server -- with no Cal's, that means no NT
      authentication,
        files serving, or print serving, and I assume no domain =
capabilities --
        that's 4 areas that Windows is strong on and Linux needs to =
catch up,
    yet
      I
        can put together a Linux box that does all 5 of these things for =
a LOT
      less
        money.

        >If you want to roll your own it can cost less for Linux, =
assuming your
      time
        is worth >nothing.

        There's actually a decent amount of free support out there, and =
you
    don't
        have to roll your own version, you can use someone's =
distribution.

        >If you want to use a supported version, like from RedHat, =
expect to
    spend
        much more for your annual subscription.  They will sell you a
    subscription
        to red hat linux advanced server for $1499 per year.<

        I would *never* pay Red Hat that much, they don't have enough to =
offer
        support wise.  I have spent that much on Microsoft products =
several
    times
        over up to now, but things are a changin.  I might add that =
Microsoft is
        quite costly for aftermarket support and I don't buy that =
either.

        >If you want their supported enterprise level web server you are =
going
    to
        pay another $395 to $895 annually.  That's more than four to six =
times
      more
        expensive than the Windows Server 2003 solution.<

        I got it beat -- I have a server here at home (always learning) =
that
    cost
      $0
        for the Linux and about $200 for the hardware.  (I also have a =
Linux
      client
        PC here that I paid $99 for and I'm not going to do that again, =
at least
      not
        this distribution.)

        - Bob Comer



        "Rich"  wrote in message news:3e67d5e4$1{at}w3.nls.net...
           Can you be specific instead of hot air and hand waving?

           It's well known that Linux has less functionality.  If you =
want to
    roll
        your own it can cost less for Linux, assuming your time is worth
    nothing.
        If you want to use a supported version, like from RedHat, expect =
to
    spend
        much more for your annual subscription.  They will sell you a
    subscription
        to red hat linux advanced server for $1499 per year.  If you =
want their
        supported enterprise level web server you are going to pay =
another $395
    to
        $895 annually.  That's more than four to six times more =
expensive than
    the
        Windows Server 2003 solution.

        Rich

          "Robert Comer"  wrote in message
        news:3e67b7d1{at}w3.nls.net...
          Less functionality, higher cost. Ease of use is a draw, but it =
would
      have
        to be even cheaper just for a web server.

          - Bob Comer


            "Rich"  wrote in message news:3e67b63f{at}w3.nls.net...
               By what criteria and how so?

            Rich

              "Robert Comer" 
wrote in message
        news:3e67ae88$1{at}w3.nls.net...
              That's not good enough to compete with Linux.

              - Bob Comer


              "Geo."  wrote in message
        news:3e67a4e1$1{at}w3.nls.net...
              > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/29567.html
              >
              > There will be no price increases (as such) when =
Microsoft ships
      its
        next
              > server OS, Windows Server 2003, on April 24th, but there =
will be
    a
        new
              > budget-priced version of the product aimed squarely at =
the web
        server
              > market. Server 2003 Web Edition comes without client =
access
        licences, with
              a
              > 2gig limit on memory, 2-way SMP, and is $399.
              >
              >


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I made nothing up, notice the "no =
Cal's"=20
part.  Of course you can add cal's and add all what I said, but it
= is extra=20
cost.
 
- Bob Comer
 
 

  "Rich" <{at}> wrote in message news:3e68ca32{at}w3.nls.net...
     You did
admit making =
stuff up. =20
  You wrote in news://news.barkto.com/3e681017$1{at}w3.nls.net">news://news.barkto.=
com/3e681017$1{at}w3.nls.net
  
     
    I'm not so sure that can be said any more, but no matter I =
wasn't=20
    justtalking overall OS functionality, but what you can do with =
that=20
    specificversion of Windows Server -- with no Cal's, that means =
no NT=20
    authentication,files serving, or print serving, and I assume no =
domain=20
    capabilities --that's 4 areas that Windows is strong on and =
Linux needs=20
    to catch up, yet Ican put together a Linux box that does all 5 =
of these=20
    things for a LOT lessmoney.
   
  I referred you to http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/overview/de=
fault.mspx">http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/overvie=
w/default.mspx=20
  so that you can stop making things up and use real info if you want to =

  criticize.  You have multiple times expressed no interest in =
visiting=20
  this site to avoid your making false statements.
   
  Rich
   
  
    "Robert Comer" <bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>">mailto:bobcomer{at}mindspring.com">bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>
= wrote=20
    in message news:3e68aa51{at}w3.nls.net...&g=
t;  =20
    I didn't argue against your invalid assumptions.At least =
state them,=20
    if you can't even do that they don't
exist.>You already =
admited=20
    you made stuff up.I did
not.>You don't appear to =
have any=20
    interest in this.You're right, your argument style of late =
totally=20
    turns me off.  I am notnearly as much against you and =
Microsoft as=20
    you think I am...- Bob
Comer"Rich"
<{at}> =
wrote=20
    in message news:3e684a50{at}w3.nls.net...&nbs=
p; =20
    I didn't argue against your invalid assumptions.  You already =
admited=20
    youmade stuff up.  I referred you to a reliable source of =
factual=20
    information.You don't appear to have any interest in this.  =
Maybe=20
    you would prefer tomake false statements, which you now claim as =
an=20
    opinion only based on afiction of your own imagination.  Of =
course=20
    you still haven't acknowledgedthat when you make up facts on =
which you=20
    base your opinions you should behonest and acknowledge=20
    that.Rich"Robert
Comer" <bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>">mailto:bobcomer{at}mindspring.com">bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>
= wrote=20
    in messagenews:3e6835d9{at}w3.nls.net...>=
  =20
    It's not whether or not you are giving an opinion or not that was=20
    yourmajor deception.LOL!  An
opinion is not a=20
    deception.>  It was that your
opinion was based on=20
    assumptions you made and not fact.And again,
assumptions you =
have=20
    not argued against.>You just admitted that
you made up =
what it=20
    was that you were comparing.I admitted no such =
thing.>Not=20
    that it wouldn't do you some good to prefix your opinions, as =
opposedto=20
    statements of fact, with "I believe" or "I
feel".<I say =
it again,=20
    *ALL* I say here is opinion.  (It may be fact also, but =
itmay not=20
    be, just not intentionally
wrong.)>   In regard =
you=20
    your mention of propaganda, don't you think that this is abit =
ironic=20
    given that your post to which I replied was propaganda and as=20
    youadmitted based on a fiction of your own =
creation?<No, I=20
    don't as what I said wasn't propaganda -- to be using propaganda =
I'dhave=20
    to have something to gain, I have nothing to gain by what I =
said. =20
    Youyourself know I use more Microsoft products than Linux, and I =
like a=20
    thirdplatform (the AS/400) the best. As for the last part, I =
created no=20
    fiction,I STATED AN OPINION.- Bob=20
    Comer"Rich"
<{at}> wrote in message news:3e682dfc{at}w3.nls.net...It's=
 not=20
    whether or not you are giving an opinion or not that was your=20
    majordeception.  It was that your opinion was based on =
assumptions=20
    you made andnot fact. You just admitted that you made up what it =
was=20
    that you werecomparing.  Not that it wouldn't do you some =
good to=20
    prefix your opinions,as opposed to statements of fact, with "I =
believe"=20
    or "I feel".   In
regard you your mention of =
propaganda,=20
    don't you think that this is abit ironic given that your post to =
which I=20
    replied was propaganda and as youadmitted based on a fiction of =
your own=20
    creation?Rich 
"Robert Comer" <bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>">mailto:bobcomer{at}mindspring.com">bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>
= wrote=20
    in messagenews:3e6821ab$1{at}w3.nls.net...=
 =20
    > If you are just making assumptions you should state that you =
are=20
    givingan  opinion based on assumptions and
not making a =

    statement based on facts.<  As I
have stated before, =
when I=20
    say something I am stating an opinion, no  more, no less, =
if you=20
    want to take everything I say as fact  (or false  =
fact,) that=20
    is your choice, but I have no energy to argue such.  This =
is, =20
    after all, a discussion group, not a scientific journal of some=20
    kind.  >It will avoid having your
false statements =
pointed=20
    out.  You haven't pointed out
any...  =
>If you=20
    care about facts, and I'm not sure you do, seehttp://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/overview/de=
fault.mspx">http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/overvie=
w/default.mspx. =20
    <  You're wrong, I'm tired of
reading Microsoft =
propaganda=20
    like that.  >  
As for your comments =
regarding the=20
    web edition's suitability for  something other than web =
server,=20
    maybe you should take a moment and
askwhat  the likely =
purpose=20
    is for something called the web
edition.<  Well duh =
-- I was=20
    comparing it to Linux and I can do cheaper and more with  =
Linux,=20
    that's all I said. 
>   In regard to free =
support,=20
    do you mean posting to a newsgroup or some  infamous IRC=20
    channel?  Is this what you use to support your =
critical =20
    systems?<  More than just
newsgroups, but, that's =
how I=20
    support all our systems, even  the AS/400. 
To phrase =
it=20
    another way, we have no software
supportcontracts  on =
anything=20
    in my department. (Not saying I wouldn't want =
themnecessarily, =20
    but they didn't have sw support contracts under the old=20
    manager...)  No IRC or IM though, I loath
that kind of=20
    thing...  - Bob
Comer  "Rich" =
<{at}> wrote=20
    in message news:3e681879{at}w3.nls.net...&nbs=
p;   =20
    If you are just making assumptions you should state that you are=20
    giving  an opinion based on assumptions and not making a =
statement=20
    based on facts.  It will avoid having your false statements =
pointed=20
    out.  If you care about  facts, and I'm not
sure you =
do,=20
    seehttp://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/overview/de=
fault.mspx">http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/overvie=
w/default.mspx.    =20
    As for your comments regarding the web edition's suitability =
for =20
    something other than web server, maybe you should take a moment and=20
    askwhat  the likely purpose is for
something called the =
web=20
    edition.     In
regard to free support, =
do you=20
    mean posting to a newsgroup or some  infamous IRC =
channel?  Is=20
    this what you use to support your critical  =
systems? =20
    Rich    "Robert
Comer" <bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>">mailto:bobcomer{at}mindspring.com">bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>
= wrote=20
    in message  news:3e681017$1{at}w3.nls.net...=
   =20
    >  Can you be specific instead of hot air and hand=20
    waving?    I just stated
my opinion, that's =
all. I'm=20
    not here to list
outeverything   =20
    possible.   
>   It's well known =
that=20
    Linux has less
functionality.    I'm not so
=
sure that=20
    can be said any more, but no matter I wasn't =
just   =20
    talking overall OS functionality, but what you can do with that=20
    specific    version of Windows
Server -- with no =
Cal's,=20
    that means no NT 
authentication,    =
files=20
    serving, or print serving, and I assume no domain capabilities=20
    --    that's 4 areas that Windows
is strong on =
and Linux=20
    needs to catch up,yet 
I    can put =
together=20
    a Linux box that does all 5 of these things for a LOT =20
    less   
money.    >If =
you want=20
    to roll your own it can cost less for Linux, assuming your  =

    time    is worth =
>nothing.   =20
    There's actually a decent amount of free support out there, and=20
    youdon't    have to roll
your own version, =
you can=20
    use someone's
distribution.    >If
you =
want to use=20
    a supported version, like from RedHat, expect=20
    tospend    much more for
your annual=20
    subscription.  They will sell you=20
    asubscription    to red
hat linux advanced =
server for=20
    $1499 per
year.<    I would
*never* pay =
Red Hat=20
    that much, they don't have enough to
offer    =
support=20
    wise.  I have spent that much on Microsoft products=20
    severaltimes    over up
to now, but things =
are a=20
    changin.  I might add that Microsoft
is    =
quite=20
    costly for aftermarket support and I don't buy that=20
    either.    >If
you want their supported =
enterprise=20
    level web server you are
goingto    pay =
another $395=20
    to $895 annually.  That's more than four to six
times  =

    more    expensive than the Windows
Server 2003=20
    solution.<    I
got it beat -- I have a =
server=20
    here at home (always learning) thatcost =20
    $0    for the Linux and about $200
for the=20
    hardware.  (I also have a Linux  =
client   =20
    PC here that I paid $99 for and I'm not going to do that again, at=20
    least  not    this=20
    distribution.)    - Bob=20
   
Comer   
"Rich" <{at}> wrote in =
message news:3e67d5e4$1{at}w3.nls.net...=
      =20
    Can you be specific instead of hot air and hand=20
   
waving?      
It's well known =
that=20
    Linux has less functionality.  If you want=20
    toroll    your own it
can cost less for =
Linux,=20
    assuming your time is
worthnothing.    If you =
want to=20
    use a supported version, like from RedHat, expect=20
    tospend    much more for
your annual=20
    subscription.  They will sell you=20
    asubscription    to red
hat linux advanced =
server for=20
    $1499 per year.  If you want
their    =
supported=20
    enterprise level web server you are going to pay another=20
    $395to    $895
annually.  That's more =
than four=20
    to six times more expensive
thanthe    =
Windows Server=20
    2003 solution.   =20
   
Rich     
"Robert Comer" <bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>">mailto:bobcomer{at}mindspring.com">bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>
= wrote=20
    in message    news:3e67b7d1{at}w3.nls.net...&nbs=
p;    =20
    Less functionality, higher cost. Ease of use is a draw, but it=20
    would  have   
to be even cheaper just =
for a web=20
   
server.     
- Bob=20
   
Comer       
"Rich" =
<{at}>=20
    wrote in message news:3e67b63f{at}w3.nls.net...&nbs=
p;         =20
    By what criteria and how=20
   
so?       =20
   
Rich         
=
"Robert=20
    Comer" <bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>">mailto:bobcomer{at}mindspring.com">bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>
= wrote=20
    in message    news:3e67ae88$1{at}w3.nls.net...=
         =20
    That's not good enough to compete with=20
   
Linux.         
=
- Bob=20
    =
Comer         =20
    "Geo." <georger{at}nls.net>">mailto:georger{at}nls.net">georger{at}nls.net>
wrote in=20
    message    news:3e67a4e1$1{at}w3.nls.net...=
         =20
    > http://www.th" target="new">http://www.th=">http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/29567.html">http://www.th=
eregister.co.uk/content/61/29567.html    &nbs=
p;    =20
   
>         
> =
There=20
    will be no price increases (as such) when Microsoft ships =20
    its   =20
   
next         
> =
server=20
    OS, Windows Server 2003, on April 24th, but there will=20
    bea   =20
   
new         
>=20
    budget-priced version of the product aimed squarely at the=20
    web   =20
   
server         
=
>=20
    market. Server 2003 Web Edition comes without client=20
    access    licences,=20
   
with         =20
   
a         
> =
2gig limit=20
    on memory, 2-way SMP, and is=20
   
$399.         =20
   
>         =20
 
>

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