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echo:	nthelp
to:	Rich
from:	Robert Comer
date:	2003-03-07 14:21:48
subject:	Re: Windows Server 2003 pricing
From: "Robert Comer" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01E3_01C2E4B4.E3F9CB80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Read what I said again Rich. >Now, do you want to take back that you made nothing up? Nope. > It doesn't include CALs because it doesn't need any for what it = does. It takes Cal's if your really want to use them though. - Bob Comer "Rich" wrote in message news:3e68e419{at}w3.nls.net... You are wrong about NT authentication, wrong about file serving, = wrong about domain capabilities. Now, do you want to take back that you = made nothing up? It doesn't include CALs because it doesn't need any for what it = does. Rich "Robert Comer" wrote in message = news:3e68cd09{at}w3.nls.net... I made nothing up, notice the "no Cal's" part. Of course you can = add cal's and add all what I said, but it is extra cost. - Bob Comer "Rich" wrote in message news:3e68ca32{at}w3.nls.net... You did admit making stuff up. You wrote in = news://news.barkto.com/3e681017$1{at}w3.nls.net I'm not so sure that can be said any more, but no matter I = wasn't just talking overall OS functionality, but what you can do with that = specific version of Windows Server -- with no Cal's, that means no NT = authentication, files serving, or print serving, and I assume no domain = capabilities -- that's 4 areas that Windows is strong on and Linux needs to = catch up, yet I can put together a Linux box that does all 5 of these things for = a LOT less money. I referred you to = http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/overview/default.ms= px so that you can stop making things up and use real info if you want = to criticize. You have multiple times expressed no interest in visiting = this site to avoid your making false statements. Rich "Robert Comer" wrote in message = news:3e68aa51{at}w3.nls.net... > I didn't argue against your invalid assumptions. At least state them, if you can't even do that they don't exist. >You already admited you made stuff up. I did not. >You don't appear to have any interest in this. You're right, your argument style of late totally turns me off. = I am not nearly as much against you and Microsoft as you think I am... - Bob Comer "Rich" wrote in message news:3e684a50{at}w3.nls.net... I didn't argue against your invalid assumptions. You already = admited you made stuff up. I referred you to a reliable source of factual = information. You don't appear to have any interest in this. Maybe you would = prefer to make false statements, which you now claim as an opinion only = based on a fiction of your own imagination. Of course you still haven't = acknowledged that when you make up facts on which you base your opinions you = should be honest and acknowledge that. Rich "Robert Comer" wrote in message news:3e6835d9{at}w3.nls.net... > It's not whether or not you are giving an opinion or not = that was your major deception. LOL! An opinion is not a deception. > It was that your opinion was based on assumptions you made = and not fact. And again, assumptions you have not argued against. >You just admitted that you made up what it was that you were = comparing. I admitted no such thing. >Not that it wouldn't do you some good to prefix your opinions, = as opposed to statements of fact, with "I believe" or "I feel".< I say it again, ALL I say here is opinion. (It may be fact = also, but it may not be, just not intentionally wrong.) > In regard you your mention of propaganda, don't you think = that this is a bit ironic given that your post to which I replied was = propaganda and as you admitted based on a fiction of your own creation?< No, I don't as what I said wasn't propaganda -- to be using = propaganda I'd have to have something to gain, I have nothing to gain by what I = said. You yourself know I use more Microsoft products than Linux, and I = like a third platform (the AS/400) the best. As for the last part, I created = no fiction, I STATED AN OPINION. - Bob Comer "Rich" wrote in message news:3e682dfc{at}w3.nls.net... It's not whether or not you are giving an opinion or not that = was your major deception. It was that your opinion was based on assumptions = you made and not fact. You just admitted that you made up what it was that = you were comparing. Not that it wouldn't do you some good to prefix your = opinions, as opposed to statements of fact, with "I believe" or "I feel". In regard you your mention of propaganda, don't you think = that this is a bit ironic given that your post to which I replied was = propaganda and as you admitted based on a fiction of your own creation? Rich "Robert Comer" wrote in message news:3e6821ab$1{at}w3.nls.net... > If you are just making assumptions you should state that you = are giving an opinion based on assumptions and not making a statement based = on facts.< As I have stated before, when I say something I am stating an = opinion, no more, no less, if you want to take everything I say as fact = (or false fact,) that is your choice, but I have no energy to argue = such. This is, after all, a discussion group, not a scientific journal of = some kind. >It will avoid having your false statements pointed out. You haven't pointed out any... >If you care about facts, and I'm not sure you do, see = http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/overview/default.ms= px. < You're wrong, I'm tired of reading Microsoft propaganda like = that. > As for your comments regarding the web edition's = suitability for something other than web server, maybe you should take a = moment and ask what the likely purpose is for something called the web edition.< Well duh -- I was comparing it to Linux and I can do cheaper = and more with Linux, that's all I said. > In regard to free support, do you mean posting to a = newsgroup or some infamous IRC channel? Is this what you use to support your = critical systems?< More than just newsgroups, but, that's how I support all our = systems, even the AS/400. To phrase it another way, we have no software = support contracts on anything in my department. (Not saying I wouldn't want them necessarily, but they didn't have sw support contracts under the old = manager...) No IRC or IM though, I loath that kind of thing... - Bob Comer "Rich" wrote in message news:3e681879{at}w3.nls.net... If you are just making assumptions you should state that = you are giving an opinion based on assumptions and not making a statement = based on facts. It will avoid having your false statements pointed out. If = you care about facts, and I'm not sure you do, see = http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/overview/default.ms= px. As for your comments regarding the web edition's = suitability for something other than web server, maybe you should take a = moment and ask what the likely purpose is for something called the web edition. In regard to free support, do you mean posting to a = newsgroup or some infamous IRC channel? Is this what you use to support your = critical systems? Rich "Robert Comer" wrote in message news:3e681017$1{at}w3.nls.net... > Can you be specific instead of hot air and hand waving? I just stated my opinion, that's all. I'm not here to list = out everything possible. > It's well known that Linux has less functionality. I'm not so sure that can be said any more, but no matter I = wasn't just talking overall OS functionality, but what you can do with = that specific version of Windows Server -- with no Cal's, that means no NT authentication, files serving, or print serving, and I assume no domain = capabilities -- that's 4 areas that Windows is strong on and Linux needs to = catch up, yet I can put together a Linux box that does all 5 of these things = for a LOT less money. >If you want to roll your own it can cost less for Linux, = assuming your time is worth >nothing. There's actually a decent amount of free support out there, = and you don't have to roll your own version, you can use someone's = distribution. >If you want to use a supported version, like from RedHat, = expect to spend much more for your annual subscription. They will sell you = a subscription to red hat linux advanced server for $1499 per year.< I would never pay Red Hat that much, they don't have = enough to offer support wise. I have spent that much on Microsoft products = several times over up to now, but things are a changin. I might add that = Microsoft is quite costly for aftermarket support and I don't buy that = either. >If you want their supported enterprise level web server you = are going to pay another $395 to $895 annually. That's more than four to = six times more expensive than the Windows Server 2003 solution.< I got it beat -- I have a server here at home (always = learning) that cost $0 for the Linux and about $200 for the hardware. (I also have = a Linux client PC here that I paid $99 for and I'm not going to do that = again, at least not this distribution.) - Bob Comer "Rich" wrote in message news:3e67d5e4$1{at}w3.nls.net... Can you be specific instead of hot air and hand waving? It's well known that Linux has less functionality. If = you want to roll your own it can cost less for Linux, assuming your time is = worth nothing. If you want to use a supported version, like from RedHat, = expect to spend much more for your annual subscription. They will sell you = a subscription to red hat linux advanced server for $1499 per year. If you = want their supported enterprise level web server you are going to pay = another $395 to $895 annually. That's more than four to six times more = expensive than the Windows Server 2003 solution. Rich "Robert Comer" wrote in message news:3e67b7d1{at}w3.nls.net... Less functionality, higher cost. Ease of use is a draw, = but it would have to be even cheaper just for a web server. - Bob Comer "Rich" wrote in message news:3e67b63f{at}w3.nls.net... By what criteria and how so? Rich "Robert Comer" wrote in = message news:3e67ae88$1{at}w3.nls.net... That's not good enough to compete with Linux. - Bob Comer "Geo." wrote in message news:3e67a4e1$1{at}w3.nls.net... > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/29567.html > > There will be no price increases (as such) when = Microsoft ships its next > server OS, Windows Server 2003, on April 24th, but = there will be a new > budget-priced version of the product aimed squarely = at the web server > market. Server 2003 Web Edition comes without client = access licences, with a > 2gig limit on memory, 2-way SMP, and is $399. > > ------=_NextPart_000_01E3_01C2E4B4.E3F9CB80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Read what I said again = Rich. >Now, do you want to take back that = you made=20 nothing up? Nope. > It doesn't include = CALs because it=20 doesn't need any for what it does. It takes Cal's if your really want to = use them=20 though. - Bob Comer "Rich" <{at}> wrote in message news:3e68e419{at}w3.nls.net... You are wrong about NT=20 authentication, wrong about file serving, wrong about domain=20 capabilities. Now, do you want to take back that you made = nothing=20 up? It doesn't include CALs = because it=20 doesn't need any for what it does. Rich "Robert Comer" <bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>">mailto:bobcomer{at}mindspring.com">bobcomer{at}mindspring.com> = wrote=20 in message news:3e68cd09{at}w3.nls.net... I made nothing up, notice the "no = Cal's"=20 part. Of course you can add cal's and add all what I said, but = it is=20 extra cost. - Bob Comer "Rich" <{at}> wrote in message news:3e68ca32{at}w3.nls.net... You did admit making = stuff=20 up. You wrote in news://news.barkto.com/3e681017$1{at}w3.nls.net">news://news.barkto.= com/3e681017$1{at}w3.nls.net I'm not so sure that can be said any more, but no matter I = wasn't=20 justtalking overall OS functionality, but what you can do = with that=20 specificversion of Windows Server -- with no Cal's, that = means no NT=20 authentication,files serving, or print serving, and I assume = no=20 domain capabilities --that's 4 areas that Windows is strong = on and=20 Linux needs to catch up, yet Ican put together a Linux box = that does=20 all 5 of these things for a LOT = lessmoney. I referred you to http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/overview/de= fault.mspx">http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/overvie= w/default.mspx=20 so that you can stop making things up and use real info if you = want to=20 criticize. You have multiple times expressed no interest in = visiting=20 this site to avoid your making false statements. Rich "Robert Comer" <bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>=20">mailto:bobcomer{at}mindspring.com">bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>=20 wrote in message news:3e68aa51{at}w3.nls.net...&g= t; =20 I didn't argue against your invalid assumptions.At least = state=20 them, if you can't even do that they don't exist.>You = already=20 admited you made stuff up.I did not.>You = don't appear=20 to have any interest in this.You're right, your argument = style=20 of late totally turns me off. I am notnearly as much = against=20 you and Microsoft as you think I am...- Bob=20 Comer"Rich" <{at}> wrote in message news:3e684a50{at}w3.nls.net...&nbs= p; =20 I didn't argue against your invalid assumptions. You = already=20 admited youmade stuff up. I referred you to a reliable = source=20 of factual information.You don't appear to have any interest = in=20 this. Maybe you would prefer tomake false statements, = which=20 you now claim as an opinion only based on afiction of your = own=20 imagination. Of course you still haven't = acknowledgedthat when=20 you make up facts on which you base your opinions you should=20 behonest and acknowledge that.Rich"Robert = Comer"=20 <bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>=20">mailto:bobcomer{at}mindspring.com">bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>=20 wrote in messagenews:3e6835d9{at}w3.nls.net...>= =20 It's not whether or not you are giving an opinion or not that = was=20 yourmajor deception.LOL! An opinion is not a=20 deception.> It was that your opinion was based = on=20 assumptions you made and not fact.And again, assumptions = you=20 have not argued against.>You just admitted that you = made up=20 what it was that you were comparing.I admitted no such=20 thing.>Not that it wouldn't do you some good to = prefix your=20 opinions, as opposedto statements of fact, with "I believe" = or "I=20 feel".<I say it again, ALL I say here is = opinion. (It=20 may be fact also, but itmay not be, just not intentionally=20 wrong.)> In regard you your mention of=20 propaganda, don't you think that this is abit ironic given = that your=20 post to which I replied was propaganda and as youadmitted = based on a=20 fiction of your own creation?<No, I don't as what I = said=20 wasn't propaganda -- to be using propaganda I'dhave to have=20 something to gain, I have nothing to gain by what I said. =20 Youyourself know I use more Microsoft products than Linux, = and I=20 like a thirdplatform (the AS/400) the best. As for the last = part, I=20 created no fiction,I STATED AN OPINION.- Bob=20 Comer"Rich" <{at}> wrote in message news:3e682dfc{at}w3.nls.net...It's= =20 not whether or not you are giving an opinion or not that was = your=20 majordeception. It was that your opinion was based on=20 assumptions you made andnot fact. You just admitted that you = made up=20 what it was that you werecomparing. Not that it = wouldn't do=20 you some good to prefix your opinions,as opposed to = statements of=20 fact, with "I believe" or "I feel". In = regard you=20 your mention of propaganda, don't you think that this is = abit ironic=20 given that your post to which I replied was propaganda and as=20 youadmitted based on a fiction of your own=20 creation?Rich "Robert Comer" <bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>=20">mailto:bobcomer{at}mindspring.com">bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>=20 wrote in messagenews:3e6821ab$1{at}w3.nls.net...= =20 > If you are just making assumptions you should state that = you are=20 givingan opinion based on assumptions and not = making a=20 statement based on facts.< As I have stated = before,=20 when I say something I am stating an opinion, no more, = no=20 less, if you want to take everything I say as fact (or=20 false fact,) that is your choice, but I have no energy = to=20 argue such. This is, after all, a discussion = group, not=20 a scientific journal of some kind. >It will = avoid=20 having your false statements pointed out. You = haven't=20 pointed out any... >If you care about facts, = and I'm=20 not sure you do, seehttp://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/overview/de= fault.mspx">http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/overvie= w/default.mspx. =20 < You're wrong, I'm tired of reading Microsoft=20 propaganda like that. > As for your = comments regarding the web edition's suitability for = something=20 other than web server, maybe you should take a moment and=20 askwhat the likely purpose is for something called = the web=20 edition.< Well duh -- I was comparing it to = Linux and I=20 can do cheaper and more with Linux, that's all I=20 said. > In regard to free support, = do you=20 mean posting to a newsgroup or some infamous IRC=20 channel? Is this what you use to support your = critical =20 systems?< More than just newsgroups, but, = that's how I=20 support all our systems, even the AS/400. To = phrase it=20 another way, we have no software supportcontracts = on=20 anything in my department. (Not saying I wouldn't want=20 themnecessarily, but they didn't have sw support = contracts=20 under the old manager...) No IRC or IM though, I = loath=20 that kind of thing... - Bob = Comer "Rich"=20 <{at}> wrote in message news:3e681879{at}w3.nls.net...&nbs= p; =20 If you are just making assumptions you should state that you are = giving an opinion based on assumptions and not making = a=20 statement based on facts. It will avoid having your = false=20 statements pointed out. If you care about facts, = and I'm=20 not sure you do, seehttp://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/overview/de= fault.mspx">http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/overvie= w/default.mspx. =20 As for your comments regarding the web edition's suitability=20 for something other than web server, maybe you should = take a=20 moment and askwhat the likely purpose is for = something=20 called the web edition. In = regard to=20 free support, do you mean posting to a newsgroup or = some =20 infamous IRC channel? Is this what you use to support your = critical systems? = Rich =20 "Robert Comer" <bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>=20">mailto:bobcomer{at}mindspring.com">bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>=20 wrote in message news:3e681017$1{at}w3.nls.net...= =20 > Can you be specific instead of hot air and hand=20 waving? I just stated my opinion, = that's all.=20 I'm not here to list outeverything =20 possible. > It's well = known=20 that Linux has less functionality. I'm = not so=20 sure that can be said any more, but no matter I wasn't=20 just talking overall OS functionality, but = what=20 you can do with that specific version of = Windows=20 Server -- with no Cal's, that means no NT =20 authentication, files serving, or print = serving,=20 and I assume no domain capabilities -- = that's 4=20 areas that Windows is strong on and Linux needs to catch=20 up,yet I can put together a = Linux=20 box that does all 5 of these things for a LOT =20 less money. = >If you=20 want to roll your own it can cost less for Linux, assuming=20 your time is worth=20 >nothing. There's actually a decent = amount=20 of free support out there, and = youdon't have=20 to roll your own version, you can use someone's=20 distribution. >If you want to use a = supported version, like from RedHat, expect=20 tospend much more for your annual=20 subscription. They will sell you=20 asubscription to red hat linux = advanced server=20 for $1499 per year.< I would = never pay=20 Red Hat that much, they don't have enough to = offer =20 support wise. I have spent that much on Microsoft products = severaltimes over up to now, but = things are a=20 changin. I might add that Microsoft = is quite=20 costly for aftermarket support and I don't buy that=20 either. >If you want their = supported=20 enterprise level web server you are = goingto =20 pay another $395 to $895 annually. That's more than four = to six=20 times more expensive than the = Windows=20 Server 2003 solution.< I got it = beat -- I=20 have a server here at home (always learning) = thatcost =20 $0 for the Linux and about $200 for the=20 hardware. (I also have a Linux =20 client PC here that I paid $99 for and I'm = not=20 going to do that again, at least = not =20 this distribution.) - Bob=20 Comer "Rich" <{at}> wrote = in=20 message news:3e67d5e4$1{at}w3.nls.net...= =20 Can you be specific instead of hot air and hand=20 waving? It's well = known that=20 Linux has less functionality. If you want=20 toroll your own it can cost less for = Linux,=20 assuming your time is worthnothing. If = you=20 want to use a supported version, like from RedHat, expect=20 tospend much more for your annual=20 subscription. They will sell you=20 asubscription to red hat linux = advanced server=20 for $1499 per year. If you want = their =20 supported enterprise level web server you are going to pay = another=20 $395to $895 annually. That's = more than=20 four to six times more expensive = thanthe =20 Windows Server 2003 solution. =20 Rich "Robert Comer" <bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>=20">mailto:bobcomer{at}mindspring.com">bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>=20 wrote in message news:3e67b7d1{at}w3.nls.net...&nbs= p; =20 Less functionality, higher cost. Ease of use is a draw, but it=20 would have to be even cheaper = just for a=20 web server. - Bob=20 Comer = "Rich"=20 <{at}> wrote in message news:3e67b63f{at}w3.nls.net...&nbs= p; =20 By what criteria and how=20 so? =20 = Rich =20 "Robert Comer" <bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>=20">mailto:bobcomer{at}mindspring.com">bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>=20 wrote in message news:3e67ae88$1{at}w3.nls.net...= =20 That's not good enough to compete with=20 = Linux. -=20 Bob=20 = Comer =20 "Geo." <georger{at}nls.net>=20">mailto:georger{at}nls.net">georger{at}nls.net>=20 wrote in message news:3e67a4e1$1{at}w3.nls.net...= =20 > http://www.th" target="new">http://www.th=">http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/29567.html">http://www.th= eregister.co.uk/content/61/29567.html &nbs= p; =20 > = >=20 There will be no price increases (as such) when Microsoft=20 ships its =20 next = >=20 server OS, Windows Server 2003, on April 24th, but there will=20 bea =20 new = >=20 budget-priced version of the product aimed squarely at the=20 web =20 server = >=20 market. Server 2003 Web Edition comes without client=20 access licences,=20 with =20 a > = 2gig=20 limit on memory, 2-way SMP, and is=20 $399. =20 > =20 = > ------=_NextPart_000_01E3_01C2E4B4.E3F9CB80-- --- BBBS/NT v4.01 Flag-4 * Origin: Barktopia BBS Site http://HarborWebs.com:8081 (1:379/1.45) SEEN-BY: 633/267 270 @PATH: 379/1 633/267
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