From: "Robert Comer" 

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>   It's not whether or not you are giving an opinion or not that was =
your major deception.

LOL!  An opinion is not a deception.

>  It was that your opinion was based on assumptions you made and not =
fact.

And again, assumptions you have not argued against.

>You just admitted that you made up what it was that you were comparing.

I admitted no such thing.

>Not that it wouldn't do you some good to prefix your opinions, as =
opposed to statements of fact, with "I believe" or "I feel".<

I say it again, *ALL* I say here is opinion.  (It may be fact also, but =
it may not be, just not intentionally wrong.)

>   In regard you your mention of propaganda, don't you think that this =
is a bit ironic given that your post to which I replied was propaganda =
and as you admitted based on a fiction of your own creation?<

No, I don't as what I said wasn't propaganda -- to be using propaganda =
I'd have to have something to gain, I have nothing to gain by what I =
said.  You yourself know I use more Microsoft products than Linux, and I =
like a third platform (the AS/400) the best. As for the last part, I =
created no fiction, I STATED AN OPINION.

- Bob Comer




"Rich"  wrote in message news:3e682dfc{at}w3.nls.net...
It's not whether or not you are giving an opinion or not that was your =
major deception.  It was that your opinion was based on assumptions you =
made and not fact. You just admitted that you made up what it was that =
you were comparing.  Not that it wouldn't do you some good to prefix = your
opinions, as opposed to statements of fact, with "I believe" or
"I = feel".

   In regard you your mention of propaganda, don't you think that this =
is a bit ironic given that your post to which I replied was propaganda =
and as you admitted based on a fiction of your own creation?

Rich

  "Robert Comer"  wrote in message =
news:3e6821ab$1{at}w3.nls.net...
  > If you are just making assumptions you should state that you are =
giving an
  opinion based on assumptions and not making a statement based on =
facts.<

  As I have stated before, when I say something I am stating an opinion, =
no
  more, no less, if you want to take everything I say as fact  (or false
  fact,) that is your choice, but I have no energy to argue such.  This =
is,
  after all, a discussion group, not a scientific journal of some kind.

  >It will avoid having your false statements pointed out.

  You haven't pointed out any...

  >If you care about facts, and I'm not sure you do, see
  =
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/overview/default.ms=
px.
  <

  You're wrong, I'm tired of reading Microsoft propaganda like that.

  >   As for your comments regarding the web edition's suitability for
  something other than web server, maybe you should take a moment and =
ask what
  the likely purpose is for something called the web edition.<

  Well duh -- I was comparing it to Linux and I can do cheaper and more =
with
  Linux, that's all I said.

  >   In regard to free support, do you mean posting to a newsgroup or =
some
  infamous IRC channel?  Is this what you use to support your critical
  systems?<

  More than just newsgroups, but, that's how I support all our systems, =
even
  the AS/400.  To phrase it another way, we have no software support =
contracts
  on anything in my department. (Not saying I wouldn't want them =
necessarily,
  but they didn't have sw support contracts under the old manager...)

  No IRC or IM though, I loath that kind of thing...

  - Bob Comer


  "Rich"  wrote in message news:3e681879{at}w3.nls.net...
     If you are just making assumptions you should state that you are =
giving
  an opinion based on assumptions and not making a statement based on =
facts.
  It will avoid having your false statements pointed out.  If you care =
about
  facts, and I'm not sure you do, see
  =
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/overview/default.ms=
px.

     As for your comments regarding the web edition's suitability for
  something other than web server, maybe you should take a moment and =
ask what
  the likely purpose is for something called the web edition.

     In regard to free support, do you mean posting to a newsgroup or =
some
  infamous IRC channel?  Is this what you use to support your critical
  systems?

  Rich

    "Robert Comer"  wrote in message
  news:3e681017$1{at}w3.nls.net...
    >  Can you be specific instead of hot air and hand waving?

    I just stated my opinion, that's all. I'm not here to list out =
everything
    possible.

    >   It's well known that Linux has less functionality.

    I'm not so sure that can be said any more, but no matter I wasn't =
just
    talking overall OS functionality, but what you can do with that =
specific
    version of Windows Server -- with no Cal's, that means no NT
  authentication,
    files serving, or print serving, and I assume no domain capabilities =
--
    that's 4 areas that Windows is strong on and Linux needs to catch =
up, yet
  I
    can put together a Linux box that does all 5 of these things for a =
LOT
  less
    money.

    >If you want to roll your own it can cost less for Linux, assuming =
your
  time
    is worth >nothing.

    There's actually a decent amount of free support out there, and you =
don't
    have to roll your own version, you can use someone's distribution.

    >If you want to use a supported version, like from RedHat, expect to =
spend
    much more for your annual subscription.  They will sell you a =
subscription
    to red hat linux advanced server for $1499 per year.<

    I would *never* pay Red Hat that much, they don't have enough to =
offer
    support wise.  I have spent that much on Microsoft products several =
times
    over up to now, but things are a changin.  I might add that =
Microsoft is
    quite costly for aftermarket support and I don't buy that either.

    >If you want their supported enterprise level web server you are =
going to
    pay another $395 to $895 annually.  That's more than four to six =
times
  more
    expensive than the Windows Server 2003 solution.<

    I got it beat -- I have a server here at home (always learning) that =
cost
  $0
    for the Linux and about $200 for the hardware.  (I also have a Linux
  client
    PC here that I paid $99 for and I'm not going to do that again, at =
least
  not
    this distribution.)

    - Bob Comer



    "Rich"  wrote in message news:3e67d5e4$1{at}w3.nls.net...
       Can you be specific instead of hot air and hand waving?

       It's well known that Linux has less functionality.  If you want =
to roll
    your own it can cost less for Linux, assuming your time is worth =
nothing.
    If you want to use a supported version, like from RedHat, expect to =
spend
    much more for your annual subscription.  They will sell you a =
subscription
    to red hat linux advanced server for $1499 per year.  If you want =
their
    supported enterprise level web server you are going to pay another =
$395 to
    $895 annually.  That's more than four to six times more expensive =
than the
    Windows Server 2003 solution.

    Rich

      "Robert Comer"  wrote in message
    news:3e67b7d1{at}w3.nls.net...
      Less functionality, higher cost. Ease of use is a draw, but it =
would
  have
    to be even cheaper just for a web server.

      - Bob Comer


        "Rich"  wrote in message news:3e67b63f{at}w3.nls.net...
           By what criteria and how so?

        Rich

          "Robert Comer"  wrote in message
    news:3e67ae88$1{at}w3.nls.net...
          That's not good enough to compete with Linux.

          - Bob Comer


          "Geo."  wrote in message
    news:3e67a4e1$1{at}w3.nls.net...
          > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/29567.html
          >
          > There will be no price increases (as such) when Microsoft =
ships
  its
    next
          > server OS, Windows Server 2003, on April 24th, but there =
will be a
    new
          > budget-priced version of the product aimed squarely at the =
web
    server
          > market. Server 2003 Web Edition comes without client access
    licences, with
          a
          > 2gig limit on memory, 2-way SMP, and is $399.
          >
          >




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>  
It's not whether or =
not you are=20
giving an opinion or not that was your major deception.
 
LOL!  An opinion is not a=20
deception.
 
>  It was that
your opinion was =
based on=20
assumptions you made and not fact.
 
And again, assumptions you have not =
argued=20
against.
 
>You just admitted that
you made up =
what it was=20
that you were comparing.
I admitted no such
thing.
 
>Not that it wouldn't
do you some =
good to prefix=20
your opinions, as opposed to statements of fact, with "I believe"
or "I=20 feel".<
 
I say it again, *ALL* I say here is =
opinion. =20
(It may be fact also, but it may not be, just not intentionally=20
wrong.)
 
>  
In regard you your =
mention of=20
propaganda, don't you think that this is a bit ironic given that your = post to=20
which I replied was propaganda and as you admitted based on a fiction of = your=20
own creation?<
 
No, I don't as what I said wasn't =
propaganda -- to=20
be using propaganda I'd have to have something to gain, I have nothing = to gain=20
by what I said.  You yourself know I use more Microsoft products = than=20
Linux, and I like a third platform (the AS/400) the best. As for the = last part,=20
I created no fiction, I STATED AN OPINION.
 
- Bob Comer

 
 
"Rich"
<{at}> wrote in message =
news:3e682dfc{at}w3.nls.net...
It's not whether or not you are giving =
an opinion=20
or not that was your major deception.  It was that your opinion
was = based=20
on assumptions you made and not fact. You just admitted that you made up = what it=20
was that you were comparing.  Not that it wouldn't do you some good = to=20
prefix your opinions, as opposed to statements of fact, with "I
believe" = or "I=20
feel".   In regard you your
mention of propaganda, = don't you=20
think that this is a bit ironic given that your post to which I replied = was=20
propaganda and as you admitted based on a fiction of your own=20
creation?Rich 
"Robert Comer" <mailto:bobcomer{at}mindspring.com">
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>bobcomer{at}mindspring.com> wrote in=20
message news:3e6821ab$1{at}w3.nls.net...  > If you are
just making assumptions you = should state=20
that you are giving an  opinion based on assumptions and
not = making a=20
statement based on facts.<  As I have
stated before, = when I say=20
something I am stating an opinion, no  more, no less, if
you = want to=20
take everything I say as fact  (or false 
fact,) that is = your=20
choice, but I have no energy to argue such.  This
is,  = after all,=20
a discussion group, not a scientific journal of some
kind.  =
>It=20
will avoid having your false statements pointed
out.  You = haven't=20
pointed out any...  >If you care about
facts, and I'm = not sure=20
you do, see  http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/overview/de=
fault.mspx">http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/overview/d=
efault.mspx. 
<  You're wrong, I'm = tired of=20
reading Microsoft propaganda like that. 
>   = As for=20
your comments regarding the web edition's suitability
for  = something=20
other than web server, maybe you should take a moment and ask =
what  the=20
likely purpose is for something called the web =
edition.<  Well=20
duh -- I was comparing it to Linux and I can do cheaper and more =
with =20
Linux, that's all I said. 
>   In regard to = free=20
support, do you mean posting to a newsgroup or some 
infamous = IRC=20
channel?  Is this what you use to support your
critical =20
systems?<  More than just newsgroups,
but, that's how I = support=20
all our systems, even  the AS/400.  To phrase
it another = way, we=20
have no software support contracts  on anything in my =
department. (Not=20
saying I wouldn't want them necessarily,  but they
didn't have = sw=20
support contracts under the old manager...) 
No IRC or IM = though, I=20
loath that kind of thing...  - Bob
Comer  = "Rich"=20
<{at}> wrote in message news:3e681879{at}w3.nls.net...     If you
are just making = assumptions you=20
should state that you are giving  an opinion based on =
assumptions and=20
not making a statement based on facts.  It will avoid
having = your false=20
statements pointed out.  If you care about 
facts, and I'm = not=20
sure you do, see  http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/overview/de=
fault.mspx">http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/overview/d=
efault.mspx.    
As for your = comments=20
regarding the web edition's suitability for  something
other = than web=20
server, maybe you should take a moment and ask what  the
likely = purpose=20
is for something called the web
edition.     =
In=20
regard to free support, do you mean posting to a newsgroup or =
some =20
infamous IRC channel?  Is this what you use to support your=20
critical  systems? 
Rich    = "Robert=20
Comer" <mailto:bobcomer{at}mindspring.com"> =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>bobcomer{at}mindspring.com> wrote in=20
message  news:3e681017$1{at}w3.nls.net...   
>  Can you be specific = instead of hot=20
air and hand waving?    I
just stated my opinion, = that's=20
all. I'm not here to list out
everything   =20
possible.   
>   It's well known = that Linux=20
has less functionality.   
I'm not so sure that = can be=20
said any more, but no matter I wasn't
just    talking = overall=20
OS functionality, but what you can do with that =
specific   =20
version of Windows Server -- with no Cal's, that means no
NT =20
authentication,    files serving, or
print serving, = and I=20
assume no domain capabilities --   
that's 4 areas = that=20
Windows is strong on and Linux needs to catch up, yet =20
I    can put together a Linux box that
does all 5 of =
these=20
things for a LOT 
less   =20
money.    >If you
want to roll your own it can = cost=20
less for Linux, assuming your 
time    is = worth=20
>nothing.    There's
actually a decent amount =
of free=20
support out there, and you don't   
have to roll your = own=20
version, you can use someone's
distribution.    =
>If=20
you want to use a supported version, like from RedHat, expect to=20
spend    much more for your annual =
subscription.  They=20
will sell you a subscription    to red
hat linux = advanced=20
server for $1499 per
year.<    I would
*never* = pay Red=20
Hat that much, they don't have enough to
offer    = support=20
wise.  I have spent that much on Microsoft products several=20
times    over up to now, but things
are a = changin.  I=20
might add that Microsoft is    quite
costly for = aftermarket=20
support and I don't buy that
either.    >If = you
want=20
their supported enterprise level web server you are going=20
to    pay another $395 to $895
annually.  That's = more=20
than four to six times 
more    expensive = than the=20
Windows Server 2003
solution.<    I got
it = beat -- I=20
have a server here at home (always learning) that cost =20
$0    for the Linux and about $200 for the =
hardware.  (I=20
also have a Linux 
client    PC here that I = paid $99=20
for and I'm not going to do that again, at least =20
not    this
distribution.)    =
- Bob=20
Comer   
"Rich" <{at}> wrote in = message=20
news:3e67d5e4$1{at}w3.nls.net...      
Can you be specific = instead=20
of hot air and hand
waving?      
= It's=20
well known that Linux has less functionality.  If you want to=20
roll    your own it can cost less for
Linux, assuming = your=20
time is worth nothing.    If you want
to use a = supported=20
version, like from RedHat, expect to
spend    much = more for=20
your annual subscription.  They will sell you a=20
subscription    to red hat linux
advanced server for =
$1499=20
per year.  If you want
their    supported = enterprise=20
level web server you are going to pay another $395 =
to    $895=20
annually.  That's more than four to six times more expensive
than=20 the    Windows Server 2003=20
solution.    =
Rich     =20
"Robert Comer" <mailto:bobcomer{at}mindspring.com">
face=3DArial
size=3D2>bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>=20
wrote in message   
news:3e67b7d1{at}w3.nls.net...     
Less functionality, = higher cost.=20
Ease of use is a draw, but it would 
have    = to be=20
even cheaper just for a web =
server.     
- Bob=20
Comer       
"Rich" =
<{at}>=20
wrote in message news:3e67b63f{at}w3.nls.net...         &nb=
sp; By=20
what criteria and how =
so?       =20
Rich         
= "Robert=20
Comer" <mailto:bobcomer{at}mindspring.com"> =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>bobcomer{at}mindspring.com> wrote in=20
message    news:3e67ae88$1{at}w3.nls.net...         
= That's not=20
good enough to compete with=20
Linux.         
- = Bob=20
Comer         
= "Geo."=20
<mailto:georger{at}nls.net"> face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>georger{at}nls.net> = wrote in=20
message    news:3e67a4e1$1{at}w3.nls.net...         
=
>=20
">http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/29567.html">
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/29567.html=
>         =20
>         
> =
There will=20
be no price increases (as such) when Microsoft ships =20
its   =20
next         
> = server OS,=20
Windows Server 2003, on April 24th, but there will be =
a   =20
new         
> = budget-priced=20
version of the product aimed squarely at the
web   =20
server         
> = market.=20
Server 2003 Web Edition comes without client =
access   =20
licences,
with         
=

a         
> 2gig =
limit on=20
memory, 2-way SMP, and is=20
$399.         =20
>         =20
>

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