From: "Rich" 

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   Regarding distributing computing, you've got to be kidding!  Go ahead =
and write your distributed app.  Everything you need is there.  Has been = for years.

Rich

  "Adam Flinton"  wrote in message =
news:3e6ca09d{at}w3.nls.net...

  "Rich"  wrote in message news:3e6a48e1{at}w3.nls.net...
   "  For all your talk you haven't mentioned any example of Linux =
having more
  functionality.  I should think you can find a couple while the list I =
gave
  for Windows already is long and is just the tip of the iceberg."

  Yes I have go back & read the posts.

  To repeat.....Where is the equivalent Windows functionality for doing
  massive distributed computing clusters such as those used by oil comps =
etc?

  "   If you want to take the view that what's in the box is the OS, and =
if
  you want to subscribe to this you better be careful because it can =
work
  against you, then please tell me which box it is to which you refer.  =
When I
  tried to make a box comparison using red hat's product Robert claimed =
that
  he wouldn't use this.  You have multiple times refused to respond to =
the
  comparison that was the topic of this thread that red hat's annual
  subscription cost for their linux plus stronghold server is more than =
four
  to six times this cost of the Windows solution."

  I don't, it is Geo's point. Myself I do tend to view the OS without =
all
  sorts of stuff as the OS. E.g. I don't tend to think of the X Windows
  stuff/GUI as being part of the OS wrt to running an box as a server =
let
  alone the Webserver etc.

  "   You also need to get your facts straight before you make false =
claims.
  Windows has had an SMTP server included for years."

  Really? Where what & what Windows iteration/model?

  "  Even the desktop Professional Edition includes this. "

  I am writing this on Win2K pro now so where is the SMTP server?

  " Windows Server 2003 includes a POP server."

  Really? Good to see competition playing out for the benefit of the =
consumer.

  "  Multiple databases have been included for years.  "

  Really? Simple help subsystems or something that anyone can use with =
some
  sort of SQL front end & network availability?

  "Select the appropriate server edition and you get not just IMAP but =
full
  blown Exchange."

  Good. Nice to see competiton palying it's part in helping to drive the
  windows feature set.


  Adam


    "Adam Flinton"  wrote in message
  news:3e69c0d1$1{at}w3.nls.net...

    "Rich"  wrote in message news:3e694a6a$1{at}w3.nls.net...
     "  Because linux does have less functionality.  "

    In some areas yes. As a blanket statement no. You could show some =
areas
    where windows is ahead & I could show some where Linux is ahead.

    "You often find discussions of what it takes to catch up.  The file
  systems
    you mentioned are all very recent and still don't have the =
functionality
  of
    NTFS which has been in production release for over a decade.  You =
don't
  have
    to look hard to find discussion of the samba folks working on =
catching up
  to
    the seven year old Windows NT 4.0.  You already ignored three times =
the
    mention of the lack of ACLs and integrated security.  Remote =
management,
    Active Directory, group policy are more examples.  Is it really =
necessary
  to
    continue with this?  We haven't even touched applications.  Before =
you
  think
    of coming back with a mention of add-on packages, remember that not =
only
    aren't these linux, many, particularly the common ones, are also =
available
    for Windows."

    Yup but you also find discussions of where linux is to a degree the =
only
    game in town (e.g. large compute clusters for oil comps). Re all the =
stuff
    like ACL'es etc.etc.etc like I said above you could find stuff where
  windows
    "has more functionality" & I could find stuff where linux
"has more
    functionality". It would be a fairly pointless exercise. Also I am =
not the
    one making statements like "It's well known windows has less
  functionality",
    you are.

    In terms of add on packages then take Geo's view that "what's in the =
box
  is
    the OS" & you would see that you get far more "OS"
for your money =
with
  linux
    (e.g. 2 SQLDB'es, IMAP/POP3/SMTP server (again possibly more than =
one)
    etc.etc.).

    I have to say though that having Windows along for the ride is =
definitely
    good for linux e.g. I would hope that what with .Net coming out, =
most
    distribs would include a good 1.3/1.4 JVM & JBOSS &/or Tomcat & =
Eclipse /
    Netbeans.

    The problem MS is going to find is that from both a pricing POV & a =
legal
    POV it might not be able to provide the same coverage of server side
    processes "in the box".

    Anyway. Don't complain about people putting out generalizations =
which are
  so
    broad that they are patently & demonstrably false & then do the =
exact same
    thing yourself.




    Rich

      "Adam Flinton"  wrote in message
    news:3e69441a$1{at}w3.nls.net...
      Even so the main argument Rich has is that people tend to make =
broad
      generalizations which are not true partly because of their
  generalization
      e.g. "linux is more secure than Win2k"

      So then what is  "It's well known that Linux has less =
functionality" if
    not
      the exact thing he is complaining about?

      Adam


      "Geo."  wrote in message =
news:3e694080{at}w3.nls.net...
      > "Adam Flinton"  wrote in message
      > news:3e692dfe{at}w3.nls.net...
      >
      > > e.g re NTFS How many Journalled File Systems has Windows got? =
XFS?
    JFS?
      > > Ext3? ReiserFS?
      >
      > NTFS has more than all those rolled into one.
      >
      > Geo.
      >
      >




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   Regarding
distributing =
computing,=20
you've got to be kidding!  Go ahead and write your distributed =
app. =20
Everything you need is there.  Has been for years.
 
Rich
 

  "Adam Flinton" <adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com>">mailto:adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com">adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com>
=
wrote in=20
  message news:3e6ca09d{at}w3.nls.net..."Rich"=20
  <{at}> wrote in message news:3e6a48e1{at}w3.nls.net...&nbs=
p;" =20
  For all your talk you haven't mentioned any example of Linux having=20
  morefunctionality.  I should think you can find a couple =
while the=20
  list I gavefor Windows already is long and is just the tip of the=20
  iceberg."Yes I have go back & read the
posts.To=20
  repeat.....Where is the equivalent Windows functionality for =
doingmassive=20
  distributed computing clusters such as those used by oil comps=20
  etc?"   If you want to take
the view that what's in =
the box=20
  is the OS, and ifyou want to subscribe to this you better be =
careful=20
  because it can workagainst you, then please tell me which box it =
is to=20
  which you refer.  When Itried to make a box comparison using =
red=20
  hat's product Robert claimed thathe wouldn't use this.  You =
have=20
  multiple times refused to respond to thecomparison that was the =
topic of=20
  this thread that red hat's annualsubscription cost for their linux =
plus=20
  stronghold server is more than fourto six times this cost of the =
Windows=20
  solution."I don't, it is Geo's point. Myself I
do tend to view =
the OS=20
  without allsorts of stuff as the OS. E.g. I don't tend to think of =
the X=20
  Windowsstuff/GUI as being part of the OS wrt to running an box as =
a server=20
  letalone the Webserver
etc."   You also need to =
get your=20
  facts straight before you make false claims.Windows has had an =
SMTP server=20
  included for years."Really? Where what &
what Windows=20
  iteration/model?"  Even the desktop
Professional Edition =
includes=20
  this. "I am writing this on Win2K pro now so
where is the SMTP =

  server?" Windows Server 2003 includes a POP =
server."Really?=20
  Good to see competition playing out for the benefit of the=20
  consumer."  Multiple databases have
been included for=20
  years.  "Really? Simple help subsystems
or something that =
anyone=20
  can use with somesort of SQL front end & network=20
  availability?"Select the appropriate server
edition and you =
get not=20
  just IMAP but fullblown
Exchange."Good. Nice to see =
competiton=20
  palying it's part in helping to drive thewindows feature=20
 
set.Adam 
"Adam Flinton" <adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com>">mailto:adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com">adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com>
=
wrote in=20
  messagenews:3e69c0d1$1{at}w3.nls.net...=
 =20
  "Rich" <{at}> wrote in message news:3e694a6a$1{at}w3.nls.net...=
  =20
  "  Because linux does have less functionality.  =
"  In=20
  some areas yes. As a blanket statement no. You could show some =
areas =20
  where windows is ahead & I could show some where Linux is=20
  ahead.  "You often find discussions of
what it takes to =
catch=20
  up.  The filesystems  you mentioned
are all very =
recent and=20
  still don't have the functionalityof  NTFS
which has been =
in=20
  production release for over a decade.  You =
don'thave  to=20
  look hard to find discussion of the samba folks working on catching=20
  upto  the seven year old Windows NT
4.0.  You =
already=20
  ignored three times the  mention of the lack of ACLs and =
integrated=20
  security.  Remote management,  Active
Directory, group =
policy=20
  are more examples.  Is it really
necessaryto  =
continue with=20
  this?  We haven't even touched applications.  Before=20
  youthink  of coming back with a mention of add-on =
packages,=20
  remember that not only  aren't these linux, many, =
particularly the=20
  common ones, are also available  for
Windows."  =
Yup but=20
  you also find discussions of where linux is to a degree the =
only =20
  game in town (e.g. large compute clusters for oil comps). Re all the=20
  stuff  like ACL'es etc.etc.etc like I said above you could =
find stuff=20
  wherewindows  "has more
functionality" & I could find =
stuff=20
  where linux "has more  functionality". It
would be a fairly =
pointless=20
  exercise. Also I am not the  one making statements
like "It's =
well=20
  known windows has lessfunctionality",  you =
are.  In=20
  terms of add on packages then take Geo's view that "what's in the=20
  boxis  the OS" & you would see
that you get far more =
"OS" for=20
  your money withlinux  (e.g. 2 SQLDB'es,
IMAP/POP3/SMTP =
server=20
  (again possibly more than one) 
etc.etc.).  I =
have to=20
  say though that having Windows along for the ride is =
definitely  good=20
  for linux e.g. I would hope that what with .Net coming out, =
most =20
  distribs would include a good 1.3/1.4 JVM & JBOSS &/or Tomcat =
&=20
  Eclipse /  Netbeans.  The
problem MS is going to =
find is=20
  that from both a pricing POV & a legal  POV it
might not =
be able=20
  to provide the same coverage of server side  processes
"in =
the=20
  box".  Anyway. Don't complain about
people putting out=20
  generalizations which areso  broad that they
are patently =
&=20
  demonstrably false & then do the exact same  thing=20
  yourself. 
Rich    =
"Adam=20
  Flinton" <adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com>">mailto:adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com">adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com>
=
wrote in=20
  message  news:3e69441a$1{at}w3.nls.net...=
   =20
  Even so the main argument Rich has is that people tend to make=20
  broad    generalizations which are
not true partly =
because=20
  of theirgeneralization   
e.g. "linux is more =
secure=20
  than Win2k"    So
then what is  "It's well =
known=20
  that Linux has less functionality" if  =
not    the=20
  exact thing he is complaining
about?   =20
  Adam   
"Geo." <georger{at}nls.net>">mailto:georger{at}nls.net">georger{at}nls.net>
wrote in =
message news:3e694080{at}w3.nls.net...&nbs=
p;  =20
  > "Adam Flinton" <adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com>">mailto:adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com">adam{at}NOSPAMsoftfab.com>
=
wrote in=20
  message    > news:3e692dfe{at}w3.nls.net...&nbs=
p;  =20
  >    > > e.g re
NTFS How many Journalled =
File=20
  Systems has Windows got? XFS? 
JFS?    =
> >=20
  Ext3? ReiserFS?   
>    > =
NTFS has=20
  more than all those rolled into one.   =20
  >    >
Geo.   =20
  >    =
>

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