From: "Rich" 

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   It's not whether or not you are giving an opinion or not that was =
your major deception.  It was that your opinion was based on assumptions =
you made and not fact.  You just admitted that you made up what it was =
that you were comparing.  Not that it wouldn't do you some good to = prefix
your opinions, as opposed to statements of fact, with "I believe"
= or "I feel".

   In regard you your mention of propaganda, don't you think that this =
is a bit ironic given that your post to which I replied was propaganda =
and as you admitted based on a fiction of your own creation?

Rich

  "Robert Comer"  wrote in message =
news:3e6821ab$1{at}w3.nls.net...
  > If you are just making assumptions you should state that you are =
giving an
  opinion based on assumptions and not making a statement based on =
facts.<

  As I have stated before, when I say something I am stating an opinion, =
no
  more, no less, if you want to take everything I say as fact  (or false
  fact,) that is your choice, but I have no energy to argue such.  This =
is,
  after all, a discussion group, not a scientific journal of some kind.

  >It will avoid having your false statements pointed out.

  You haven't pointed out any...

  >If you care about facts, and I'm not sure you do, see
  =
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/overview/default.ms=
px.
  <

  You're wrong, I'm tired of reading Microsoft propaganda like that.

  >   As for your comments regarding the web edition's suitability for
  something other than web server, maybe you should take a moment and =
ask what
  the likely purpose is for something called the web edition.<

  Well duh -- I was comparing it to Linux and I can do cheaper and more =
with
  Linux, that's all I said.

  >   In regard to free support, do you mean posting to a newsgroup or =
some
  infamous IRC channel?  Is this what you use to support your critical
  systems?<

  More than just newsgroups, but, that's how I support all our systems, =
even
  the AS/400.  To phrase it another way, we have no software support =
contracts
  on anything in my department. (Not saying I wouldn't want them =
necessarily,
  but they didn't have sw support contracts under the old manager...)

  No IRC or IM though, I loath that kind of thing...

  - Bob Comer


  "Rich"  wrote in message news:3e681879{at}w3.nls.net...
     If you are just making assumptions you should state that you are =
giving
  an opinion based on assumptions and not making a statement based on =
facts.
  It will avoid having your false statements pointed out.  If you care =
about
  facts, and I'm not sure you do, see
  =
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/overview/default.ms=
px.

     As for your comments regarding the web edition's suitability for
  something other than web server, maybe you should take a moment and =
ask what
  the likely purpose is for something called the web edition.

     In regard to free support, do you mean posting to a newsgroup or =
some
  infamous IRC channel?  Is this what you use to support your critical
  systems?

  Rich

    "Robert Comer"  wrote in message
  news:3e681017$1{at}w3.nls.net...
    >  Can you be specific instead of hot air and hand waving?

    I just stated my opinion, that's all. I'm not here to list out =
everything
    possible.

    >   It's well known that Linux has less functionality.

    I'm not so sure that can be said any more, but no matter I wasn't =
just
    talking overall OS functionality, but what you can do with that =
specific
    version of Windows Server -- with no Cal's, that means no NT
  authentication,
    files serving, or print serving, and I assume no domain capabilities =
--
    that's 4 areas that Windows is strong on and Linux needs to catch =
up, yet
  I
    can put together a Linux box that does all 5 of these things for a =
LOT
  less
    money.

    >If you want to roll your own it can cost less for Linux, assuming =
your
  time
    is worth >nothing.

    There's actually a decent amount of free support out there, and you =
don't
    have to roll your own version, you can use someone's distribution.

    >If you want to use a supported version, like from RedHat, expect to =
spend
    much more for your annual subscription.  They will sell you a =
subscription
    to red hat linux advanced server for $1499 per year.<

    I would *never* pay Red Hat that much, they don't have enough to =
offer
    support wise.  I have spent that much on Microsoft products several =
times
    over up to now, but things are a changin.  I might add that =
Microsoft is
    quite costly for aftermarket support and I don't buy that either.

    >If you want their supported enterprise level web server you are =
going to
    pay another $395 to $895 annually.  That's more than four to six =
times
  more
    expensive than the Windows Server 2003 solution.<

    I got it beat -- I have a server here at home (always learning) that =
cost
  $0
    for the Linux and about $200 for the hardware.  (I also have a Linux
  client
    PC here that I paid $99 for and I'm not going to do that again, at =
least
  not
    this distribution.)

    - Bob Comer



    "Rich"  wrote in message news:3e67d5e4$1{at}w3.nls.net...
       Can you be specific instead of hot air and hand waving?

       It's well known that Linux has less functionality.  If you want =
to roll
    your own it can cost less for Linux, assuming your time is worth =
nothing.
    If you want to use a supported version, like from RedHat, expect to =
spend
    much more for your annual subscription.  They will sell you a =
subscription
    to red hat linux advanced server for $1499 per year.  If you want =
their
    supported enterprise level web server you are going to pay another =
$395 to
    $895 annually.  That's more than four to six times more expensive =
than the
    Windows Server 2003 solution.

    Rich

      "Robert Comer"  wrote in message
    news:3e67b7d1{at}w3.nls.net...
      Less functionality, higher cost. Ease of use is a draw, but it =
would
  have
    to be even cheaper just for a web server.

      - Bob Comer


        "Rich"  wrote in message news:3e67b63f{at}w3.nls.net...
           By what criteria and how so?

        Rich

          "Robert Comer"  wrote in message
    news:3e67ae88$1{at}w3.nls.net...
          That's not good enough to compete with Linux.

          - Bob Comer


          "Geo."  wrote in message
    news:3e67a4e1$1{at}w3.nls.net...
          > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/29567.html
          >
          > There will be no price increases (as such) when Microsoft =
ships
  its
    next
          > server OS, Windows Server 2003, on April 24th, but there =
will be a
    new
          > budget-priced version of the product aimed squarely at the =
web
    server
          > market. Server 2003 Web Edition comes without client access
    licences, with
          a
          > 2gig limit on memory, 2-way SMP, and is $399.
          >
          >




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   It's not
whether or not =
you are giving=20
an opinion or not that was your major deception.  It was that your
= opinion=20
was based on assumptions you made and not fact.  You just admitted
= that you=20
made up what it was that you were comparing.  Not that it wouldn't
= do you=20
some good to prefix your opinions, as opposed to statements of fact, = with
"I=20
believe" or "I feel".
 
   In regard
you your mention =
of=20
propaganda, don't you think that this is a bit ironic given that your = post to=20
which I replied was propaganda and as you admitted based on a fiction of = your=20
own creation?
 
Rich
 

  "Robert Comer" <bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>">mailto:bobcomer{at}mindspring.com">bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>
= wrote in=20
  message news:3e6821ab$1{at}w3.nls.net...>=20
  If you are just making assumptions you should state that you are =
giving=20
  anopinion based on assumptions and not making a statement based on =

  facts.<As I have stated before, when I say
something I am =
stating=20
  an opinion, nomore, no less, if you want to take everything I say =
as=20
  fact  (or falsefact,) that is your choice, but I have no =
energy to=20
  argue such.  This is,after all, a discussion group, not a =
scientific=20
  journal of some kind.>It will avoid having your false =
statements=20
  pointed out.You haven't pointed out
any...>If you =
care=20
  about facts, and I'm not sure you do, seehttp://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/overview/de=
fault.mspx">http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/overvie=
w/default.mspx.<You're=20
  wrong, I'm tired of reading Microsoft propaganda like=20
  that.>   As for your
comments regarding the web =
edition's=20
  suitability forsomething other than web server, maybe you should =
take a=20
  moment and ask whatthe likely purpose is for something called the =
web=20
  edition.<Well duh -- I was comparing it to
Linux and I can =
do=20
  cheaper and more withLinux, that's all I =
said.>   In=20
  regard to free support, do you mean posting to a newsgroup or =
someinfamous=20
  IRC channel?  Is this what you use to support your=20
  criticalsystems?<More than just
newsgroups, but, that's =
how I=20
  support all our systems, eventhe AS/400.  To phrase it =
another way,=20
  we have no software support contractson anything in my department. =
(Not=20
  saying I wouldn't want them necessarily,but they didn't have sw =
support=20
  contracts under the old manager...)No IRC or IM though, I =
loath that=20
  kind of thing...- Bob
Comer"Rich" <{at}> wrote
=
in=20
  message news:3e681879{at}w3.nls.net...&nbs=
p; =20
  If you are just making assumptions you should state that you are =
givingan=20
  opinion based on assumptions and not making a statement based on =
facts.It=20
  will avoid having your false statements pointed out.  If you care =

  aboutfacts, and I'm not sure you do, seehttp://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/overview/de=
fault.mspx">http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/evaluation/overvie=
w/default.mspx.  =20
  As for your comments regarding the web edition's suitability =
forsomething=20
  other than web server, maybe you should take a moment and ask =
whatthe=20
  likely purpose is for something called the web =
edition.   In=20
  regard to free support, do you mean posting to a newsgroup or =
someinfamous=20
  IRC channel?  Is this what you use to support your=20
 
criticalsystems?Rich 
"Robert Comer" <bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>">mailto:bobcomer{at}mindspring.com">bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>
= wrote in=20
  messagenews:3e681017$1{at}w3.nls.net...=
 =20
  >  Can you be specific instead of hot air and hand=20
  waving?  I just stated my opinion, that's
all. I'm not =
here to=20
  list out everything 
possible.  >   =
It's=20
  well known that Linux has less
functionality.  I'm not so =
sure=20
  that can be said any more, but no matter I wasn't just  =
talking=20
  overall OS functionality, but what you can do with that =
specific =20
  version of Windows Server -- with no Cal's, that means no=20
  NTauthentication,  files serving, or print
serving, and I =
assume=20
  no domain capabilities --  that's 4 areas that Windows is =
strong on=20
  and Linux needs to catch up, yetI  can put
together a =
Linux box=20
  that does all 5 of these things for a LOTless =20
  money.  >If you want to roll your own
it can cost less =
for=20
  Linux, assuming yourtime  is worth =
>nothing. =20
  There's actually a decent amount of free support out there, and you=20
  don't  have to roll your own version, you can use someone's=20
  distribution.  >If you want to use a
supported =
version, like=20
  from RedHat, expect to spend  much more for your annual=20
  subscription.  They will sell you a
subscription  to red =
hat=20
  linux advanced server for $1499 per
year.<  I would =
*never*=20
  pay Red Hat that much, they don't have enough to offer  =
support=20
  wise.  I have spent that much on Microsoft products several=20
  times  over up to now, but things are a changin.  I =
might add=20
  that Microsoft is  quite costly for aftermarket support and I =
don't=20
  buy that either.  >If you want their
supported =
enterprise=20
  level web server you are going to  pay another $395 to $895=20
  annually.  That's more than four to six
timesmore  =
expensive=20
  than the Windows Server 2003
solution.<  I got it beat =
-- I=20
  have a server here at home (always learning) that
cost$0  =
for the=20
  Linux and about $200 for the hardware.  (I also have a=20
  Linuxclient  PC here that I paid $99 for and I'm not =
going to do=20
  that again, at leastnot  this =
distribution.)  - Bob=20
  Comer  "Rich"
<{at}> wrote in message news:3e67d5e4$1{at}w3.nls.net...=
    =20
  Can you be specific instead of hot air and hand=20
  waving?     It's
well known that Linux has =
less=20
  functionality.  If you want to roll  your own it can =
cost less=20
  for Linux, assuming your time is worth nothing.  If you want =
to use a=20
  supported version, like from RedHat, expect to spend  much =
more for=20
  your annual subscription.  They will sell you a =
subscription  to=20
  red hat linux advanced server for $1499 per year.  If you want=20
  their  supported enterprise level web server you are going to =
pay=20
  another $395 to  $895 annually.  That's more
than four =
to six=20
  times more expensive than the  Windows Server 2003=20
  solution. 
Rich    "Robert
Comer" =
<bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>">mailto:bobcomer{at}mindspring.com">bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>
= wrote in=20
  message  news:3e67b7d1{at}w3.nls.net...&nbs=
p;  =20
  Less functionality, higher cost. Ease of use is a draw, but it=20
  wouldhave  to be even cheaper just for a web=20
  server.    - Bob=20
 
Comer     
"Rich" <{at}> wrote =
in=20
  message news:3e67b63f{at}w3.nls.net...&nbs=
p;       =20
  By what criteria and how
so?     =20
 
Rich       
"Robert Comer" =
<bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>">mailto:bobcomer{at}mindspring.com">bobcomer{at}mindspring.com>
= wrote in=20
  message  news:3e67ae88$1{at}w3.nls.net...=
       =20
  That's not good enough to compete with=20
 
Linux.       
- Bob=20
 
Comer       
"Geo." =
<georger{at}nls.net>">mailto:georger{at}nls.net">georger{at}nls.net>
wrote in=20
  message  news:3e67a4e1$1{at}w3.nls.net...=
       =20
  > http://www.th" target="new">http://www.th=">http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/29567.html">http://www.th=
eregister.co.uk/content/61/29567.html    &nbs=
p;  =20
 
>       
> There will be =
no price=20
  increases (as such) when Microsoft shipsits =20
 
next       
> server OS, =
Windows=20
  Server 2003, on April 24th, but there will be a =20
 
new       
> budget-priced =
version=20
  of the product aimed squarely at the web =20
 
server       
> market. =
Server 2003=20
  Web Edition comes without client access  licences,=20
 
with       =20
 
a       
> 2gig limit on =
memory,=20
  2-way SMP, and is
$399.       =20
 
>       =20
>

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