0n (20 Mar 07) Carol Shenkenberger wrote to Cindy Haglund...

 CS> *** Quoting Cindy Haglund from a message to Carol Shenkenberger ***

CH>  Reminds me of the book/movie "The Geisha Girl"....

CH>  What's the only real difference between the Geisha girl and the
CH> prostitute? Money.

 CS> Sorry but no.  The traditional geisha isnt even remotely a prostitute.


CH>  Hi Carol! Nice to see you back for a bit.

 CS> Well, i'm off again tomorrow so it's a short stay.  Still, I think I
 CS> get this echo at sea.  Just havent been able to keep up there very
 CS> well lately.

 Hope you're having a good time...

CH>  The point was the similarity lies in exploitation, not necessarily
CH>  actual sex. Of course we must then ask: is it exploitation if the
CH>  woman willfully chooses either occupation?

 CS> It's not considered exploitation though, although the modern geisha

 I realize that. Exploitation is only considered exploitation by those
 who feel exploited (or by those concerned who feel others are).
 Never by the person doing it. Of course not. :)
 
 CS> might be a little different.  The modern ladies are excited by the
 CS> tradition and history and it's hard to get in to the training because
 CS> there are more applicants than there are openings.  It's a very
 CS> intense schooling and quite professional, even today.

 As with any profession the glamor factor attracts, but the actual
 doing often tells another story. I do know about the schooling; this
 is covered in he story I read and the non fiction article I read.

 The only way a young lady of today might feel exploited I guess would
 be if she feels she has not choice but to stay in the profession,
 if she decides she doesn't care for it. It's easier to leave now then
 it used to be, I take it. :)

  CS> While it does 'sound' to a westerner like something odd, you'd have to
 CS> keep in mind that sex doesn't equal 'bad' in this culture.  Girls are


 That is a good point. I don't think of sex as being bad, just that so
 much money is involved for it. That's what I find disgusting.

 The fact that billions of dollars are involved in th Entertainment
Industry while ooh dear... never enough for the little boy who needs
glasses or the little girl who needs special treatment for a
psychological problem ..due to lack of health insurance... There's never
enough money for medical research.... but oH OH a sex idol gets paid
millions just to show her tits?? Or sell her used TP on Ebayh? People
go crazy over crap like that... and okay.. it's not the entertainer's
fault there's such a huge gullible audience. :( BUt still.. it's a
very sad reflection on where people put the priorities when it comes
to the welfare of humanity and the environment. :(

................

 CS> not expected to be virgins when they marry for example.
 CS> 'Victorianism' never hit this island. Nor did the christian church
 CS> until recently relative to their historical time line.

 I'm not trying to say I'm hung up on sex. I'm not. :) It's the money
 thing that bothers me.

CH>  earning an income? Perhaps one is simply a 'cock tease' while the
CH>  other' goes all the way'?

 CS> Nope.  There is no expectation that the geisha will sleep with you at
 CS> all. *If* she does, it's a 'honour' to be so accepted, but not a
 CS> 'dishonour' if she doesn't as that's normal.

 Unless perhaps he's had a few too many shots of sake? :)
 
 CS> I asked a fellow working on the ship about this (his english is
 CS> excellent and he's very friendly).  He said 'the worst problem is
 CS> gaijin (us) think they are prostitutes so we don't usually allow
 CS> westernerners near them if we can help it.  He then proudly related


 Ah.. I see. In the book "The Geish Girl"... there were some who had
entertained Anmerican GI's (after the war and during occupation)-..
and didn't manage to stay Geisha very long.

 CS> that one of this sisters children had been accepted to the primere
 CS> training school (I think thats the one in Kagoshima but not sure). 
 CS> She will become a gracious japanese lady. (his words).
 .............

 CS> I thanked him for his time and wished sincerely that he and his family
 CS> would have joy.  That was this morning.  I dunno what 'books' you have
 CS> been reading but my information comes from meeting geishas and from
 CS> living here in Japan the past 6 years.  Geisha's are very rare but
 CS> when you see one, you bow to them. You bow lower than they do as they
 CS> have a higher status.

 I appreciator your info Carol and the time you took to express it. :)
 It could be that the Geisha of the House depicted in the works I
 have read were not the best examples. One was by a Japanese author so
 I thought that would be more authentic, yet of course I imagine too
 that even in Japan there are those who look down upon Geisha. (Let's
 say perhaps the wives of men who spend too much time in the Tea
 houses?
 ..................................

 CS> It's ok that you have the wrong idea, it's common.  It's like many

 I didn't think my idea was totally wrong, but I thank you for sharing
your view so I might alter mine a bit. Please understand it's not the
sex I am bothered with, it's the 'being a paid toy' (entertainer); the
money thing I have scruples with.

..................
 CS> think sushi is raw fish (sushi may have raw fish or other raw seafood

Hey. I got sorted out on that and I want you to know I have been
telling people sushi is RICE! Sashimi is the thinly sliced raw fish.
But still the error sticks. There's also the error about sake an dhow
it is pronounced. BTW ya know it's SMART thing to serve sake hot 

 CS> but rarely as sushi is almost always cooked fillings.  Exceptions are
 CS> almost exclusively roe based ones). Sashimi is raw fish .

 That it is, but you know truth is stranger than fiction to some. :)

 ........
CH>  How does anyone know? I speak with a cynical point of
CH>  view given all I have read with regard to Human Nature.

CH>  Just because someone says so, doesn't make it so.

 CS> True and you may chose to believe as you desire.  I am sure you will
 CS> find many web sites that validate your view and books as well.  I can
 CS> only go on personal experience.  You'll note perhaps that the only
 CS> other person in those echo who also has personal experience of living
 CS> in japan (though for less time than I have) also hopped right on this.

 Nod. I do tend to respect and accept the pov of those who have personal
experience over second hand info. Thanks.

CH>  What looks nice on paper isn't always so nice, in practice.

 CS> Perhaps not, but the happy smiles and excited eyes of a real geisha,
 CS> have more sway for me.

 Yeah... And I imagine the profession has evolved considerably since ww2.


Cindy

... Time flies. Fruit flies like pears.

--- PPoint 3.01