From Newsgroup: alt.tv.star-trek.tos
From Address: David{at}block.net
Subject: Re: STAR TREK THE WRATH OF KHAN: was What Did You Watch?
2013-06-01(Saturday)

On 6/6/2013 2:12 PM, Wiseguy wrote:
> David Johnston  wrote in news:koqph0$nlm$1{at}dont-
> email.me:
>
>> On 6/6/2013 1:24 PM, Wiseguy wrote:
>>> David Johnston  wrote in news:koqn7g$9o0$1{at}dont-
>>> email.me:
>>>
>>>> On 6/6/2013 1:16 PM, Wiseguy wrote:
>>>>> David Johnston  wrote in
news:koqdop$hrh$2{at}dont-
>>>>> email.me:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 6/5/2013 11:35 PM, Wiseguy wrote:
>>>>>>> David Johnston  wrote in
>>>>>>> news:konjlt$u78$1{at}dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 6/5/2013 12:41 AM, Halmyre wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Jun 4, 5:06 pm, anim8rFSK
 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In article
,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>      
"Danie...{at}teranews.com" 
> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Lewis wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> In message

>>>>>>>>>>>>         Arthur Lipscomb
 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/2/2013 10:03 PM,
ToolPackinMama wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/2/2013 10:31
PM, Arthur Lipscomb wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most of the
other characters were from TOS or just a
> random
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alien.  This
guy stands out because TOS had no cyborgs
> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that on the Enterprise.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TOS did have an
android on the Enterprise in one episode.
>>> He
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wore a Starfleet
uniform and everything.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/imudd.htm
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not entirely the same
thing.  Androids were clearly
>>> established
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in TOS, which made
Data's claims of uniqueness a little
> odd.
>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>> character in the movie
is humanoid with cybernetic implants
>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>>>>> apparently (according
to online sources) have a direct
> neural
>>>>>>>>>>>>> interface with the
Enterprise.  He's more Borg than
> Starfleet
>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> more advance than
anything Starfleet should have had during
>>> TOS
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or even TNG).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Different History.
Different developments.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Lewis, I was going to give a
similar response to Arthur, up
>>>>> thread,
>>>>>>>>>>> along the lines of
"Different Timeline, so who knows what is
>>>>>>>>>>> possible!!", but as this
is only a shout time
> (months/years??)
>>>>>>>>>>> after the re-boot, is it
really likely that there would be a
>>> Borg
>>>>>>>>>>> in Starfleet??
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The history of the universe and
basic physics were already
>>>>>>>>>> completely different in the first
movie when Nero first
>>> appeared.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But the laws of physics are...erm,
unchangeable...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I dunno about that.  The way warp drive
works changed between
> TOS
>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> TNG.  And that wasn't even supposed to be
a parallel universe.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They took place several decades apart.  Can't
there be any
>>>>> advancements
>>>>>>> in what is a FICTIONAL universe?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't consider changing how speed is measured to
a asymptotic
>>> scale
>>>>> to
>>>>>> be an advancement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You wrote: "The way warp drive works" not
"changing how speed is
>>>>> measured to a asymptotic scale."
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, the speed of warp drive.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Changing the way warp drive works is not just changing speed.
>>> If all you meant was speed you should have said so in the first
> place.
>>>
>>> At any rate, an increase is speed can still be considered an
>>> advancement.
>>>
>>
>> No.  Not changing speed.  Changing how speed is measured.  Early on in
>> TNG Roddenberry declared that Warp 10 would be the absolute speed
> limit
>> for warp drive in a vain attempt to fend off unlimited escalation of
> how
>> fast ships could go.  He did this even though the Kelvans in TOS had
>> already made ships go at Warp Factor 11.
>>
>> Now the writers evaded the spirit of Roddenberry's decree while
>> conforming to the letter merely by declaring that Warp 10 is infinite
>> velocity and you become one with the speed force if you reach it.
> Then
>> you turn into a newt because witchcraft.
>>
>> But what that means is that since Kelvans were going at warp factor 11
>> in TOS, and warp factor 10 is infinite velocity in TNG, warp factors
> in
>> the two series would be measuring two different things, like miles per
>> hour and knots, and calling them the same thing.  So it's not just
>> faster.  It's in a different way with different fundamental
> principles.
>>
>
> The Kelvans used their own knowledge/technology to achieve Warp 11.
>
> Anyway, it's all fiction.  There will always be inconsistencies in
> filmed fiction. Sometimes in the same episode.
>

Yes, that was more or less my original point, that there were 
inconsistencies between the series that were every bit as great as the 
ones between the reboot and earlier Star Trek series.
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