From Newsgroup: alt.tv.star-trek.tos
From Address: David{at}block.net
Subject: Re: STAR TREK THE WRATH OF KHAN: was What Did You Watch?
2013-06-01(Saturday)

On 6/6/2013 1:24 PM, Wiseguy wrote:
> David Johnston  wrote in news:koqn7g$9o0$1{at}dont-
> email.me:
>
>> On 6/6/2013 1:16 PM, Wiseguy wrote:
>>> David Johnston  wrote in news:koqdop$hrh$2{at}dont-
>>> email.me:
>>>
>>>> On 6/5/2013 11:35 PM, Wiseguy wrote:
>>>>> David Johnston  wrote in
>>>>> news:konjlt$u78$1{at}dont-email.me:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 6/5/2013 12:41 AM, Halmyre wrote:
>>>>>>> On Jun 4, 5:06 pm, anim8rFSK
 wrote:
>>>>>>>> In article
,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>      "Danie...{at}teranews.com"
 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Lewis wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In message

>>>>>>>>>>        Arthur Lipscomb
 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/2/2013 10:03 PM,
ToolPackinMama wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/2/2013 10:31 PM,
Arthur Lipscomb wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most of the other
characters were from TOS or just a random
>>>>>>>>>>>>> alien.  This guy
stands out because TOS had no cyborgs like
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that on the Enterprise.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> TOS did have an android on
the Enterprise in one episode.
> He
>>>>>>>>>>>> wore a Starfleet uniform
and everything.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/imudd.htm
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Not entirely the same thing. 
Androids were clearly
> established
>>>>>>>>>>> in TOS, which made Data's
claims of uniqueness a little odd.
>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>> character in the movie is
humanoid with cybernetic implants
>>> which
>>>>>>>>>>> apparently (according to
online sources) have a direct neural
>>>>>>>>>>> interface with the Enterprise.
 He's more Borg than Starfleet
>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> more advance than anything
Starfleet should have had during
> TOS
>>>>>>>>>>> (or even TNG).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Different History. Different developments.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lewis, I was going to give a similar
response to Arthur, up
>>> thread,
>>>>>>>>> along the lines of "Different
Timeline, so who knows what is
>>>>>>>>> possible!!", but as this is only
a shout time (months/years??)
>>>>>>>>> after the re-boot, is it really likely
that there would be a
> Borg
>>>>>>>>> in Starfleet??
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The history of the universe and basic
physics were already
>>>>>>>> completely different in the first movie
when Nero first
> appeared.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But the laws of physics are...erm, unchangeable...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I dunno about that.  The way warp drive works
changed between TOS
>>> and
>>>>>> TNG.  And that wasn't even supposed to be a
parallel universe.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> They took place several decades apart.  Can't there be any
>>> advancements
>>>>> in what is a FICTIONAL universe?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't consider changing how speed is measured to a asymptotic
> scale
>>> to
>>>> be an advancement.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You wrote: "The way warp drive works" not
"changing how speed is
>>> measured to a asymptotic scale."
>>>
>>
>> Yes, the speed of warp drive.
>>
>
> Changing the way warp drive works is not just changing speed.
> If all you meant was speed you should have said so in the first place.
>
> At any rate, an increase is speed can still be considered an
> advancement.
>

No.  Not changing speed.  Changing how speed is measured.  Early on in 
TNG Roddenberry declared that Warp 10 would be the absolute speed limit 
for warp drive in a vain attempt to fend off unlimited escalation of how 
fast ships could go.  He did this even though the Kelvans in TOS had 
already made ships go at Warp Factor 11.

Now the writers evaded the spirit of Roddenberry's decree while 
conforming to the letter merely by declaring that Warp 10 is infinite 
velocity and you become one with the speed force if you reach it.  Then 
you turn into a newt because witchcraft.

But what that means is that since Kelvans were going at warp factor 11 
in TOS, and warp factor 10 is infinite velocity in TNG, warp factors in 
the two series would be measuring two different things, like miles per 
hour and knots, and calling them the same thing.  So it's not just 
faster.  It's in a different way with different fundamental principles.
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