*** Quoting Bob Moylan to Walter Five dated 05-28-97 ***
> Walter Five (On 26 May 97) was overheard expounding to Bob Moylan
> 
> 
>  WF> Oh, I heartily DISAGREE. I am an ADHD adult. I *was* an ADHD 
> child.
> 
>  That ^^ is part of why I'm in this echo...there is no substitute for
>  real first hand experience.  I've seen you post here, if somewhat
>  infrequently, in the past.  Don't be such a stranger... (-8
> 
Well, I'd LIKE to be around more often, but my *own* life doesn't let me
as near as much as I'd like to. With *any* luck, I'm about to disappear for 
three months to attend  Federal Agent's School in Georgia...
*** Quoting Bob Moylan to Walter Five dated 05-28-97 ***
>  WF> I certainly KNEW what I was getting punished for, and *why*, most 
> of
>  WF> the time.
> 
>  Okay...I probably didn't say what very well what I was thinking at
>  the time...and "punishment" isn't exactly the word choice I'd have
>  used if I'd given a little more thought to it.  Discipline more aptly
>  describes what I was trying to say....there is a difference.
>  
Ah! Ich verstain! Nothing wrong with discipline. Talking to a child and 
reasoning with them is sometimes the *worst* punishment--a spanking gets over 
with relatively quickly, and is soon forgotten.
*** Quoting Bob Moylan to Walter Five dated 05-28-97 ***
>  WF> Usually it felt like an injustice,
> 
>  Yes...we hear that a LOT.  "It's not _fair_" or something along the
>  lines that Johnny "made" me do it.
> 
YEP...Life isn't fair. Learning to swallow a bit of injustice from time to 
time builds character. It did for me! Kids often don't understand when 
they're being manipulated by their peers. That was a problem that *I* had!
And sometimes the peers are SO anxious to do it...
*** Quoting Bob Moylan to Walter Five dated 05-28-97 ***
>  WF> Agressive behaviors expressed in unhealthy and anti-social ways
>  WF> have GOT to be dealt with, for the sake of the child, and for the
>  WF? sake of the children that the child associates with.
> 
>  Absolutely agree ... we are trying to extend this particular concept
>  to verbal aggression as well.  Physical aggression toward another
>  isn't tolerated at all.  It's extremely difficult to discipline our
>  son +and+ make him understand why when he has retaliated against
>  another kid who has goaded him into something or has struck the first
>  blow.  We've live where we do now for all of his 10 years so most of
>  the neighborhood kids know what he's like (sometimes that's good and
>  sometimes they use it against him) and all the parents who get
>  involved are very good at getting to the root of who did what to who.
> 
Then you are BLESSED! Because a lot of times, parents don't WANT to get to 
the bottom of it, they want to blame *anybody's* kid other than their own. 
It was difficult for me to learn about goading, but I eventually figured out 
that I was being played for a Fool, and I *knew* even then that Momma didn't 
raise *any* fools! Physical Agression is a tough line to toe. I think, for 
example, that there are lot of valuable lessons an ADHD Child can learn 
through the disciplines and philosophies of Martial Arts--it develops 
coordination and self-respect, and if the Sinsei is a good one, it instills 
responsibility for one's actions,  and teaches to think before you act...
if the Sinsei is a muscle-bound aggression freak, OTOH...
*** Quoting Bob Moylan to Walter Five dated 05-28-97 ***
>  WF> "Trouble" caused by curiosity, OTOH, is a different matter, and
>  WF> needs to handled with a different tack--
> 
>  Yeah...something different every time...
> 
>  WF> kids need to learn about "Cause and Effect", especially ADHD kids.
> 
>  Isn't not so much as not knowing as it is what the "effect" will be
>  as just plain not being able to consider the "cause" before it is
>  done?  IOW the thought = the action?
> 
> 
Oh, I know THAT one too well! That's a *much* harder one to grasp...Learning 
to look before one leaps...Hard experience is about the *only* teacher, 
sometimes; I cracked my head open about 7 or 8 times, broke an arm, got hit
by a car on my bicycle (hurt REALLY bad), by the time I was 12; Luckily I 
survived long enough to learn...my parents where pretty protective, too!
Needless to say, I quickly rebelled against that, and by 15, well, we won't 
even *talk* about my delinquent days as a juvenile...luckily, I survived long 
enough to learn...the HARD way...
Best of luck!
Walter Five
--- T.A.G. 2.7c Standard
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