FromTheRafters  wrote in
news:lsu2cp$h4h$1@news2.open-news-network.org: 

> Dustin expressed precisely :
>> FromTheRafters  wrote in
>> news:lstf34$um8$1@speranza.aioe.org: 
>>
>>> Jax pretended :
>>>> FromTheRafters  wrote in
>>>> news:lrtio7$ndd$1@speranza.aioe.org: 
>>>> 
>>>>> After serious thinking Dustin wrote :
>>>>>> FromTheRafters  wrote in
>>>>>> news:lrte22$r6t$1 @news2.open-news-network.org: 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dustin was thinking very hard :
>>>>>>>> "David W. Hodgins"  wrote in 
>>>>>>>> news:op.xj4xbphsa3w0dxdave@hodgins.homeip.net: 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 05 Aug 2014 11:18:40 -0400, Wolf K
>>>>>>>>>   wrote: 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On 2014-08-05 9:58 AM, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I disagree with this usage when in this context. These
>>>>>>>>>>> entities exist and are accessed before there is a file
>>>>>>>>>>> system extant to access true  files. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> "True" files????
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Now we're getting into the semantics of what a file is. I
>>>>>>>>> do agree the boot sector and bios contain data. I don't
>>>>>>>>> agree that they are files. A file has a name, that is
>>>>>>>>> accessible from the os. Neither of the above have names.
>>>>>>>>> While some programs can read/write them, a general file
>>>>>>>>> browser cannot. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Regards, Dave Hodgins
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I agree with you and FTR on this one.  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> However, this is what a "file" is becoming most likely. This
>>>>>>> context is  quite different from the context we should be
>>>>>>> using here. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You can obviously see the potential for abuse this will
>>>>>> provide? 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> http://research.microsoft.com/apps/pubs/?id=154539
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Frightening....
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> We suggest that one aspect of this adaptation is to encompass
>>>>>> metadata within a file abstraction; another has to do what
>>>>>> such a shift would mean for enduring user actions such as
>>>>>> ‘copy’ and
>>>>>> ‘delete’ applicable to the 
>>>>>> deriving file types. We finish by arguing that there is an
>>>>>> especial need to support the notion of
>>>>>> ‘ownership’ that adequately
>>>>>> serves both users and engineers as they engage with the 
>>>>>> world of networked sociality. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> engineers? What a fancy term for er, Microsoft programmer. :)
>>>>> 
>>>>> I can see it now
>>>>> Definition:
>>>>> 
>>>>> File - an internet standard devised by Microsoft to create an 
>>>>> abstraction for anything a user might need an abstraction for.
>>>> 
>>>> Rafters what's an abstraction?
>>> 
>>> In this case it's a way of making some underlying complexity
>>> seem more simple to the user. That's not an official definition,
>>> but it's close. In this sense it is the underlying, perhaps
>>> scattered, data which the user thinks of as a file being
>>> presented to the user as if it were actually a file.
>>> 
>>> An example is the File Transfer Protocol - you don't actually
>>> transfer a file, you "create" a file locally (zero-length) and
>>> "access" a file remotely (contains the desired data) and read it
>>> out, then write it in to the newly created file. Metadata can be
>>> sent to make the local file look like the remote file as far as
>>> timestamps and other filesytem data is concerned.
>>> 
>>> In this way, data which exists in chunks spread amongst many
>>> separate computers in a cloudlike fashion (like some P2P
>>> systems) can be treated (by the user) as if it were a file being
>>> transferred. Another is that a "folder" is an abstraction of a
>>> "directory" and some icons and buttons  are abstractions of more 
>>> complicated commmands. 
>>
>> Very good explanation, but I fear it's totally wasted...
> 
> Yeah, sometimes I think there's someone behind Jax telling her
> what questions to ask. That was actually a very good question, and
> there's much more to it than that answer suggests.

Rafty thank you for the info. When you said something is under the
abstraction then is that the same thing as an "abstraction layer" in
computing? Just wondering.

-- 
Jax        
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