Hello LAURA!
Replying to a message of LAURA MILLER to ALL:
 LM> Does anyone know of any car dealerships that offer electric cars? It's
 LM> been something I have been interested in checking out. I've already
 LM> looked
 LM> into natural gas conversion kits for cars, but it's not a practical
 LM> option.
Neither are electrics. Based on the energy lost during the charge/discharge 
cycle and the methods of obtaaining that energy, unless your energy provider 
derives its electricty from nukes, your electric car will pollute far more 
than any diesel or gasolene fed car.
TTYL,
John Meroth
--- FleetStreet 1.17 NR
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** A related thread FOLLOWS this message.

FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 211 ENVIRONMENT   Ref: DGK11292 Date: 12/16/96
From: LAURA MILLER                                          Time: 01:21am
\/To: JOHN MEROTH                                         (Read 4 times)
Subj: R: ELECTRIC CARS

Hi John,    In responce to the practicallity problem...
 
JM>Neither are electrics. Based on the energy lost during the charge/discha
JM>cycle and the methods of obtaaining that energy, unless your energy prov
JM>derives its electricty from nukes, your electric car will pollute far mo
JM>than any diesel or gasolene fed car.
 
I checked into the natural gas conversion and it's not so much a problem
with the car, but the refueling. The company suggested an attachment to
the house for quick and easy refueling which would be great if we didn't
rent.
I wanted to look into other options other than the convensional car for
those short in-town child transports, groceries, etc. A bicycle would do
just fine if they made a 4 seater with room for 'stuff'. (come to think of
it, 3 feet of snow would be a bit of a problem too. ) :)
 
Any suggestions are more than welcome.
 
Laura Miller
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FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 211 ENVIRONMENT   Ref: DGF00001 Date: 12/10/96
From: TOM EZELL                                             Time: 11:34am
\/To: MICHAEL BOWEN                                       (Read 4 times)
Subj: Question about liability

MB> JP> I worked for a local hardware store for about 9 months before it
MB> JP> closed.  One  of the thing we did was pump K-1 Kerosene for heating.  
A
MB> JP> lot of kerosene got  spilled over the years, and I am sure there is
MB> JP> still some in the ground.  My  understanding of EPA regs is that ANY
MB> JP> owner of that land is responsible for  pollution on the site,
MB> JP> regardless of any ignorance of the problem.  is this  correct?
The current owner is the one that they come after to pay for cleaning up
the property.  If the site is abandoned, then we look for all of the
"potentially responsible parties", or PRPs, who may have contributed to
the pollution at the site.  Each PRP, under the federal CERCLA
("Superfund") Act and most State cleanup laws, is jointly and severally
liable for all costs of the cleanup.  Each winds up sueing the other to
make sure everyone pays their fair share, and you start to see why the
federal Superfund law is a lawyer's dream ;-)
MB> JP> Could
MB> JP> someone buy that shopping center in 20 years and have to clean  up
MB> JP> where the tank was?  It was an above ground tank, and the location is
MB> JP> very  conspicous.  The asphalt around/in front of location is 
tained.
MB> JP> I am just  trying to get a feel for how long the long arm of the law 
is
MB> JP> in this case.
Yes.  You should never consider buying any industrial property without
having first done what they call a Phase I Environmental Audit on it.
Many banks won't finance you without one, anyway.
As to the current operator having to clean it up, it's pretty well
dependent on the risk that the contamination will affect the ground
water and wells in the area, and the risk that any surface contamination
poses to the local residents.  Generally, yes, you'll have to clean it
up.  A process called risk-based corrective action, or RBCA, will help
define how much you have to clean up.
The arm of the law is pretty long in this case, even though the federal
and/or state governments will often front the money for some clean-ups
at hazardous substance sites.   For petroleum storage tanks, your state
will generally have some sort of a trust fund to reimburse you for a
part of the costs of the cleanup, if you're a participant in the fund or
if the former owner was in the fund when the spill occurred.  It's a
$25,000 deductible, with coverage up to $1 million.
EPA started a program last year called "Brownfields", where they will
strictly limit the future liability of a company that will come in,
clean up, and re-occupy an old abandoned industrial site (a
"brownfield") rather than building new in previously virgin lands
("greenfields").  So far, it's been well-received.
Tom
MB>I heard about a place in Niagra Falls New York where they use to make
MB>airplanes
MB>where the ground is polluted.  The place is practically deserted, and the
MB>company is making no plans to sell it because that means they would have
MB>to clean it up.
                                                   y
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