Hello Joe.

20 Apr 06 10:46, you wrote to me:

 >>  JD> Can be done.
 >>
 >> Of course it can be done. The objective of a quorum is not to make
 >> things impossible. Just to prevent a small minority fron sneaking
 >> things through.

 JD> Will not do so though.  A quorum can still be a small minority.  It
 JD> all depends on what percentage is set as a quorum.

Of course one should set the quorum high enough to prevent the scenario I
described but not so high as to block all change.

 >>  JD> However the point I am trying to make is that if you really want,
 >>  JD> you can assemble enough people of like mind to form a quorum,

 >>  But you can not do it in secrecy. You have to make
"noise" and that
 >> prevents situation where a minority gets his way while the mayority
 >> wasn't even aware something was going on.

 JD> Perhaps not so easily in a club or physical meeting, but in the case
 JD> of an online election, it can indeed be done in secrecy.  Netmail,
 JD> email, to only those you want to be there.

Such an obvious attempt at manipulation would invalidate any outcome if the
rules are worth the paper they are printed on. (or the harddrive where it
is stored). if it is scuccessful that is. Which is unlikely. If you have to
round up many people, there will invariably leaks and the opposition will
be alarmed. It can be done with 3, 4 perhaps 5 people. If you need to round
up fifty it won't remain a secret. No way.

 >>  JD> and still get your way.

 >> Of course. The point being that you have to assemble enough people.
 >> And than you get the majority of those you assemble to agree with
 >> you, yes then you go your way. That is democracy.

 JD> It can be thus, and it can be manipulation as well.

Not in secrecy.

 >>  >> Your premise is wrong and therefore so is your conclusion.

 >>  JD> Apperently not.

 >> You fail to understand. The safeguards are not against someone
 >> getting his way The safeguerds are against a small group of
 >> dissidents getting there way by manipulation in secrecy.

 JD> See above.  It can be abused.

No, it can not.


Michiel

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