JOHNJWILSON -> ED HULETT wrote:
 J> Wow. A loo00ng post...

 J> Lessee...

 ->>>>>>>> No, it is life and death, whether you
like it or not.

 J>>>>>>> It's like getting a tooth pulled.

 ->> Ask a woman what she goes through during and after an abortion and then
 J> get
 ->> back to me on that.

 J> The answers vary greatly. Primarily relief.

You can't be serious.

Again, you speak out of ignorance.

 ->> Like always, the pro-abortion crowd...

 J> A lot of people (many!) who feel that a woman has freedom to choose what
 J> happens to her body...are also saddened by the prevalence of abortion:
 J> there are many good suggestions yo reduce this: In sum: Legal, Safe and
 J> Rare.

That isn't the goal for the pro-abortion crowd. Their goal is to have
abortion available up to and including delivering an almost full-term child
and killing it or letting it die of neglect.

Ms. Sanger (the founder of Planned Parenthood) was a racist whose stated
goal was to eliminate African-Americans through birth control.

 J> I really know of no one who is Pro-abortion in any general sense...

You delude yourself, then.

 J>  have made up a story to make it seem like
 ->> abortion was meant to save women's lives. It has nothing to do with
 J> saving the
 ->> life of the woman and everything to do with convenience.

 J> 'Convenience' is at best use of a trivial word concerning an important
 J> subject.

If they rely on abortion as a form of birth control it is all about convenience.

BTW, at the top, you said it was like pulling a tooth. Which is it?

 J>>>>>>> Yep. A child is born alive when the first
breath of air is
 J> taken.

 ->>>>>> It is alive long before that.

 J> Just exactly how long do you figure. The moment of conception. At that very
 J> instant a soul is implanted? If that fetus is removed does the implanted
 J> soul die?

It is life from the moment of conception. It contains its own unique DNA
and starts to grow from a single cell at a rapid rate. In just a few short
weeks it is almost fully developed. There is evidence that at a very early
stage it is self-aware. The soul is also developed in the womb.

You attempts at dehumanizing the fetus is typical of those who support
abortion at any cost.


 ->> Your first breath did not transform you from a "collection
of molecules"
 J> into a
 ->> human life. Your were human and alive in your mother's womb.

 J> You have every right to believe that. People (many) insist of believing
 J> differently. The argument will continue.

No one said you didn't have the right to believe it. I merely said you were
wrong in believing it.

 ->>>> Obviously you weren't dead in the womb.
 J>>> There was no "I" in the womb. There was a
mechanism, assembling,
 J> becoming
 J>>> usable. The engine started when it started to breathe. Then senses
 J>>> conjoined and neurons flowed with input from surroundings..._I_ came
 J> into
 J>>> existence sometime later...

 ->> That is the most ignorant comment I have ever read...
 J> There are a lot of ignorant people around. Many have funny capital letters
 J> attached to their name. Many also are from other current cultures not
 J> considered barbaric :-)

Huh?

 ->> If your scenario were true, killing a pregnant woman would not be
 J> considered a
 ->> double murder by the law.
 J> One murder conviction would be sufficient.

In every situation in the US and Canada (even "enlightened"
Europe) where a pregnant woman has been killed or severely injured
resulting in the death of the unborn child, the perpetrator has been
charged with the  that death.

 ->> (I) have no desire for an unwanted child to be brought into
 J>>> this
 J>>>>> world. Or forcing any woman to do so.

 ->>>> Ah yes, death is better than being wanted...

 J>>> Abortion is a sad decision, IMO to be made by the woman.

 ->> It is and the saddest part is that 99% of abortions are done for the
 ->> convenience of the woman --
 J> A silly, made up statistic. And 'convenience' a silly non-empathetic word.

Show me where that statistic is made up or wrong.

Really? And it takes empathy to support abortion?

 J>>> What is puzzling to me is that those who protest loudly against
 J> abortions
 J>>> because it is interfering with God (Or The Natural Order of
 J> things)...
 J>>> generally make exception in the case of rape or incest...God, it
 J> seems
 J>>> would agree with THOSE abortions...(Or bodies who naturally
 J> abort...)

 ->> That is another ignorant position...
 J> So you believe that those raped should be forced to bring the child to
 J> term. Incestuous pregnancies also?
 J> Interesting, but cruel.

As I told Sauer, rape and incest rarely result in pregnancy. The encounter
is all about power and nothing to do with sex.

 J>  The only event abortion is even remotely
 ->> acceptable is when the life of the mother is in danger.

 J> Now you are getting an even smaller percentage of those who might agree
 J> with you.(Not that that matters.)

If 9 million people believe wrongly, it doesn't change the fact that they
believe wrongly.

I really couldn't care less who disagrees with me.

 ->  ->> Fine, but please come into the discussion honestly and admit that
 J>>> abortion is
 ->>>> ending a human life.

 J>>> I honestly don't believe that.

 ->> I cannot see why...
 J> (Probably because that part of your "I" doesn't want to.)

No kidding?

 J>  What is it if it isn't human? What is it if it isn't life? A
 ->> turnip?
 J> I already stated my opinion on those molecules....

Again, you dehumanize it to ease your conscience.

 J>>> It is the termination of a pregnancy.

 ->> And termination of a life whether you want to believe or not.
 J> I understand that is your opinion.

It is a FACT! It isn't merely an opinion.

 J>>> A human life has not begun.

 ->> Good for you. Your belief is in error.
 J> So you prefer to believe.

I'm the one dealing with reality here. Your referring to the unborn child a
mere collection of molecules is bizarre.

 J> ife
 ->>>> support too if they aren't convenient?
 J>>> All? No. Some? Depends. If the neuron aren't firing...there's no one
 J> there.




 J>>>>>>> economic slavery .... the choice of Leo
Strauss and the
 J> neocons...

 ->>>>>> "[E]conomic slavery?"
 J>>>>> Yes. Absolute servitude to the elitists.


 ->>>> You mean like...

 J>>> I don't 'mean like anything other than what I've said.
 J>>> Nothing in the current administration has anything to do with the
 J> Political
 J>>> Philosophy of Leo Strauss. (Which as interpreted by the Neocons is
 J> scary as
 J>>> hell.

 ->> That doesn't change the fact that Obama and his people are elitists.
 J> Good! Pragmatists as well.
 J> I think, just off hand, that someone who receives a D.J Summa cum laude
 J> could well be described as an elitist. An elite crowd is better than a
 J> bunch of power-hungry ragamuffins...:-|

 ->> "Neocon" is code for Jew.
 J> That is simply not true.

 J>>> (Tangential, and redefining of elite):

 ->>>> .... serving Obama and his elitist administration? Where is having
 J> the
 ->>>> authority to fire the CEO of a corporation in the Constitution?
 J> Where is
 J>>> the
 ->>>> authority for forcing another corporation to merge with another?

 J>>> The same authority that FDR has in closing the banks, introducing
 J> Social
 J>>> Security et cetera...

 ->> In other words, it isn't there.
 J> Welcome to the post 1800's!



 ->>>> Is it not elitist for the director of Homeland Security to release
 J> an
 J>>> advisory
 ->>>> labeling anyone who disagrees with the president a right-wing
 J> extremist
 J>>> and
 ->>>> potential terrorist?

 J> No. Merely a stupid statement.

Ah, I see you had to delete the URL I gave you with which you could learn
something. You then claim the above is a stupid statement.

Here's an article from The Swamp:

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2009/04/homeland_security_rightwing_ex.html

Here's one form ABC News' blog:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/04/conservatives-d.html

Fox News:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/04/14/homeland-security-warns-rise-right-wing-extremism/

NewsBusters:

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2009/04/14/department-homeland-security-worried-about-rightwing-extremists

Need I continue?

Ed

-- 
"Truth does not become more true by virtue of the fact that the
entire world agrees with it, nor less so even if the whole world
disagrees with it." --Jewish philosopher Maimonides (1135-1204)

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