JOHNJWILSON -> ED HULETT wrote:
 ->>>>>> No, it is life and death, whether you like it or not.

 J>>>>> It's like getting a tooth pulled.

Ask a woman what she goes through during and after an abortion and then get
back to me on that.

 RS>>>>>>> You remember what abortion was like,
*PRIOR* to Roe V. Wade?
 RS>>>>>>> A hodgepodge of laws from state to state,
with rich women
 J> paying
 RS>>>>>>> under the table or going on "European
Vacations."
 RS>>>>>>> And poor women died.
 J>>>>> This was true when I was growing up.

 ->>>> Fewer women got abortions back then.
 J>>> Perhaps. As it was a scandalous illegal act, fewer were reported.

 ->> So, how do you know what Sauer said was true when you were growing up?

 J> I stand corrected. What I should have said is 'that is what I heard, read
 J> and got the impression of in my youth. I was wrong about a lot of things
 J> when I was young.

Like always, the pro-abortion crowd have made up a story to make it seem
like abortion was meant to save women's lives. It has nothing to do with
saving the life of the woman and everything to do with convenience.


 ->>>>>> That makes no sense.  What they want is life. 
You distort the
 J>>> issue so
 ->>>>>> that you can sleep well at night...

 J>>>>> THAT is worth my consideration...:-|

 J>>>>>   In none of your response did you show
 ->>>>>> any concern for the unborn.  None at all.  That
is telling.

 J>>>>> Yep. A child is born alive when the first breath of
air is taken.

 ->>>> It is alive long before that.

 J>>> :-) My birth certificate says: "Born alive"

 ->> I certainly hope so.

 J> :-) I read it with some relief. :-)

Your first breath did not transform you from a "collection of
molecules" into a human life. Your were human and alive in your
mother's womb.


 ->> Obviously you weren't dead in the womb.
 J> There was no "I" in the womb. There was a mechanism,
assembling, becoming
 J> usable. The engine started when it started to breathe. Then senses
 J> conjoined and neurons flowed with input from surroundings..._I_ came into
 J> existence sometime later...

That is the most ignorant comment I have ever read. Your neurons were
firing long before you took your first breath.

If your scenario were true, killing a pregnant woman would not be
considered a double murder by the law.

 J>>>>> Prior to that it is just a bunch of interesting collections of
 J>>> molecules...

 ->>>> That's what those who want to dehumanize the unborn in order to
 J> sleep
 J>>> better at
 ->>>> night.
 J>>> Well, I sleep very well, without a thought concerning abortion. :-)

 ->> Good for you.

 J>>> And, awake, have no desire for an unwanted child to be brought into
 J> this
 J>>> world. Or forcing any woman to do so.

 ->> Ah yes, death is better than being wanted...

 J> Abortion is a sad decision, IMO to be made by the woman.

It is and the saddest part is that 99% of abortions are done for the
convenience of the woman -- that she won't have to take responsibility for
her actions.

 ->> And we can't force those women to
 ->> take responsibility for their actions.

 J> What is puzzling to me is that those who protest loudly against abortions
 J> because it is interfering with God (Or The Natural Order of things)...
 J> generally make exception in the case of rape or incest...God, it seems
 J> would agree with THOSE abortions...(Or bodies who naturally abort...)

That is another ignorant position. The only event abortion is even remotely
acceptable is when the life of the mother is in danger. That is in less
that one tenth of a percent of all abortions.

"Natural abortion" or miscarriage has nothing to do with God.

 ->> Fine, but please come into the discussion honestly and admit that
 J> abortion is
 ->> ending a human life.

 J> I honestly don't believe that.

I cannot see why. What is it if it isn't human? What is it if it isn't
life? A turnip?

 J> It is the termination of a pregnancy.

And termination of a life whether you want to believe or not.

 J> A human life has not begun.

Then what is it, a turnip? The DNA says it's a human and it's alive in the
womb. There is nothing you can say to change that.

 ->>>> It isn't Catholic dogma.
 J>>> It most certainly is.

 ->> No, it is not.

 J> So you think. I believe erroneously. I've talked to a few priests and a few
 J> parishioners and read some that indicate otherwise.

Good for you. Your belief is in error.

 ->> ...So you also think we should unplug all those accident victims on life
 ->> support too if they aren't convenient?
 J> All? No. Some? Depends. If the neuron aren't firing...there's no one there.

If the neurons aren't firing the person is not alive. They are being kept
alive by mechanical means.

 ->> We differ in a lot of things.

 J> Yep.


 J>>>>> economic slavery .... the choice of Leo Strauss and
the neocons...

 ->>>> "[E]conomic slavery?"
 J>>> Yes. Absolute servitude to the elitists.


 ->> You mean like...

 J> I don't 'mean like anything other than what I've said.
 J> Nothing in the current administration has anything to do with the Political
 J> Philosophy of Leo Strauss. (Which as interpreted by the Neocons is scary as
 J> hell.

That doesn't change the fact that Obama and his people are elitists.

"Neocon" is code for Jew.

 J> (Tangential, and redefining of elite):

 ->> .... serving Obama and his elitist administration? Where is having the
 ->> authority to fire the CEO of a corporation in the Constitution? Where is
 J> the
 ->> authority for forcing another corporation to merge with another?

 J> The same authority that FDR has in closing the banks, introducing Social
 J> Security et cetera...

In other words, it isn't there.


 ->> Is it not elitist for the director of Homeland Security to release an
 J> advisory
 ->> labeling anyone who disagrees with the president a right-wing extremist
 J> and
 ->> potential terrorist?
 J> Couldn't find that: I Googled "Homeland security" got a
LOT of information
 J> there...where is your source? It seem HIGHLY unlikely...

Here's a link to a Google search I  did using "Homeland Security
right-wing" (without the quotes) as the key words:

http://www.google.com/search?q=Homeland+Security+right-wing&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a

Since that will wrap, here's the tinyurl.

http://tinyurl.com/ol6ove

Ed

-- 
"The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is
to fill the world with fools." --Herbert Spencer

"The principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under
the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale."
 --Thomas Jefferson

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