==> A hush fell over the room when Billy O said to Harriet Levy <== 
 
 BO> Sometimes, I still catch myself doing that.  Trying to warp the
 BO> mirror in front of me so that I can continue to avoid dealing with
 BO> me.
Yes.  Also, so often, I find the people around me irritating me, and on
further reflection I find that I'm irritated because, either, they're
doing something I want to be doing and can't get past my own fear and
let myself do, or they're doing something I really despise about myself
and seeing them do it is like looking in a mirror.
There's a woman in my home group who is like that.  She goes to such
lengths to be controlling in that meeting, that I want to scream at 
her to shut up.  One day I realized that my wanting to shut her up 
was exactly the same thing that she was doing.  I wanted to control
the meeting too....just that she was more blatant about it.  Gave me
a whole lot of compassion to realize that.  Now she no longer irritates
me...no, that's not true...but she doesn't irritate me as much.  Whenever
she starts up, I can say to myself, "there she goes again..." and then 
be amused at my own reaction.  
 
 HL> One of them realized that the things she couldn't stand about this
 HL> other woman were exactly the things about herself that she couldn't
 HL> stand.  It took me a long time to learn that particular lesson.
 BO> It's one that I still learn.  And the next question is; what do I
 BO> do with that information after I have it?  I've got a fairly
 BO> constant reminder of how I -could- be, reflected to me in the
 BO> person and behaviors of the owner here.
As I said, sometimes it the stuff that they are doing that I want
to do, and for some reason, can't.  Sometimes they're doing something
really great that I'm afraid to do....and sometimes they're doing 
something that I wish I could "get away" with.  Like whining in a
meeting.  I can't let myself do that, at least not anymore ;-) Or 
they're getting a degree of attention that I want and don't know how
to ask for.
For me, what I try to do with that information is figure out what I
can do to make myself more comfortable with me.  
These days that's pretty much where I am.  Trying to figure out how
to be more comfortable with me...instead of focusing on what I can 
do to make myself more acceptable (which I'm really f*cking tired
of doing).
 BO> Just knowing that my uncomfortable-ness comes from relating to,
 BO> identifying with, behaviors and attitudes that I call "ugly" in
 BO> myself, that I see in him, takes only a little bit off the edge of
 BO> my discomfort.
Yes.  I understand that one.  I can identify...I can even compare.  
I'm on a crusade to "take it easy on Harriet."  I realized that I
do need to stop hating myself for my character defects.  I am the
way I am.  I can do what I can to change what I don't like about 
myself, but I'm not doing anyone, least of all myself, any good by
beating myself up for it.  Of course, this is easy to say after spending
a long weekend with one of my "moms of choice".  It's easy to feel
when I spend time around people who love me.  Their love for me 
reflects back on me, and I feel love for myself.
 BO> He freely operates under ground rules that I am repulsed by, in my
 BO> self.
 BO> The trick, as I choose to practice it, is to accept the reflection
 BO> and affirm that I choose not to be that way, today.  That helps,
 BO> kinda.
 
Have you spent any time comparing what you used to be like with what
you're like today, using him as a mirror?  You know I've often said
that the only difference between the guy who stood on top of a building
with a high powered rifle, picking off people at random, and me, is that
although I think about doing those things, I even *want* to do them
sometimes, I don't DO it.  There is a difference between what goes
on in my head and what comes out in my actions.
There's a double edge to this one.  I keep being reminded of what a 
woman I knew from my old home group said frequently:  "For years I
wanted people to judge me by my intent but they kept insisting on
judging me by my actions."  This goes both ways.  What counts is
what I do.  Whether my intent is "good" or my intent is malicious...
what I do is what "exists".  I'm not sure if I'm being real clear 
about this.
 BO> Yeah, we are all locked into our little bubbles of perception.  We
 BO> all have our own soap operas we're living in.  A soap opera is
 BO> something people do when they can't stand being in their own life.
 BO> They create one that keeps the focus "outside".
Yes.  I've been there.  Still am, from time to time.  Sometimes my
soap opera involves the people around me, and their dramas...sometimes
it's my own drama, that I'm creating.  The BBS's are real good for that,
for me.  I can build a virtual reality that is much more interesting
than what I've got going on in "real" life.  That's when I have to 
shut the computer and go out.
 
 HL> willing to go out of their way to "teach" you how to be different, it
 BO> Nobody taught me directly, but they did blame me daily.  I grew up
 BO> knowing that I made my gods have feelings, and that I was gonna
 BO> have to pay for that power.
I'm not sure that anyone taught me directly either...but I learned 
it just the same.
 
 HL> violation it is.  You've just described my sister, btw.  The problem
 HL> is, I'm not, in the least, interested in her opinion of what I'm
 HL> doing....and she never asks permission to state it.  For a long time I
 HL> couldn't figure out why I felt violated whenever I was around her. 
 BO> I understand that dance.  Their condemnation is the only
 BO> connection I have with them.  And any connection is better than
 BO> being alone with myself.
 BO> Until it isn't anymore.
 
Yes.  I'm working on being okay with myself.  Did a lot of work around
that this past weekend.  Put together a way of reframing that whole
scene that works for me.
 HL> Then I realized that she was incredibly open with her condemnation of
 HL> what I was doing, and free with her voiced opinion of that.  I wonder
 HL> when I'm going to get the courage to say to her, "I really don't care
 HL> what you think.  I didn't ask you for your opinion on that matter."
 BO> It'll probably be just after you get okay with you life as it is.
 BO> And for me, that state of okay-ness is still not a constant.
Yup....that occurred to me too.  By the time I have the courage to
say it, I won't have to...because it won't matter.
 BO> And for the record, you do still care.  You're still listening.
 BO> Her "comfort" is more important than yours.
 
Yes and no.  Her "comfort" is still more important than I'd like it
to be, however, it's no longer *more* important than mine.  It's a
pendulum swing.  It's moving down the scale, but I'm not where I 
want to be yet.
 HL> Hunh.  I never thought of it as spiritual abuse...specifically.  And
 HL> that's exactly what it is.  I keep coming back to the Ugly Duckling
 BO> yeah, that's what I call it.
 
 HL> story.  I feel like a swan born into a family of ducks.  I don't
 HL> know how that happened, and I'm trying to figure out how to live with
 HL> the results without compromising my own integrity.  So far I haven't
 HL> figured out how to do that.  I keep thinking that if I get to a place
 HL> where I'm so secure in who I am, it won't make a difference.  I'm not
 HL> there yet.
 BO> I believe it.  When I'm satisfied with my own life-garden, and I
 BO> look into others gardens, I'm not about comparing, I'm about
 BO> looking for ideas on arraingement.
Actually, the work that I did this weekend made me see that I'm 
not a swan...more like a hawk...if you want to talk more about this
in detail, we can do netmail, if you tell me where to send it...or
call me.  I'm usually around in the morning (eastern time) or between
9:00 and 11:00 pm EST.
 BO> It comes.  It really does.
I know.  I have people in my life, you're one of them, who show me
that it does.
 BO> Just because I'm wierd, doesn't mean I'm wrong.
 
Reminds me of the line from 1984 "Just because you're a minority of
one doesn't mean you're insane" or something like that...
 HL> I think that's what has been happening for me, lately.  I'm feeling
 HL> really okay with who I am and I'm finding it unacceptable to be 
 HL> treated as second class.
 BO> How does that relate to your self-objectifing stuff?
Damn...you don't cut a girl any slack, do you? ;-)
I think I'm getting better with that.  The more I'm getting okay
with me, the less *I* treat myself as second-class.  When I'm okay
with me, I don't need to objectify myself...that's about as far
as I can go with that right now....more on that later.
 
 BO> The power of self abandonment, for me, comes from it being how I
 BO> survived my family environment.  And it also gives me a real neat
 BO> way to blame others for my conditions.
Well, of course.  For me, too.  Especially the early survival stuff.
I know I tend to blame others for abandoning me when, in fact, I 
abandoned myself first.  If I don't abandon myself, they can't 
abandon me....just can't happen.  But do I set it up to be that 
way?  I don't think so.  I could be wrong.
 
 HL> that when I'm there for myself, I'm not afraid of abandonment...and
 HL> when it comes to my FOO, even while I'm thinking of letting them go, my
 HL> fear is that if I do that, they'll abandon me completely.  What puzzles
 HL> me is why  I'm so concerned about people who have *never* been there
 HL> for me  abandoning me.  
 BO> I believe it's a developmental state that we are supposed to go
 BO> thru.  But the bummer is, if no bonds were established, then there
 BO> aren't any to be cut.  And if we don't get to cut the bonds, then
 BO> we don't get the rewards of that stage of development.
Is that a bummer?  Or is it a necessary dynamic?  I think that what
we're talking about is separation and individuation.  
 BO> How many times have we bonded with borderline toxic individuals
 BO> only to sunder the connection for no obvious reason, after the
 BO> bond was established?
Too many. ;-)  Maybe they've been borderline for you....some of them
have been seriously toxic for me.
 BO> I believe it's our deeper self trying to get that stage done with.
Probably.  When the people we really have to do it with is, for me,
my family.  All the others are just re-enactments of my family dynamic.
I've created that in romantic relationships, platonic relationships,
work relationships, etc. etc.
 
 HL> Which is how I think I should be able to deal with my family.  Be
 HL> around them without getting into anything "meaningful" (by that I mean
 HL> anything that has to do with my life).  Then I wonder, "Why bother?" 
 HL> As I said, it's a dilemma, and I haven't gotten through it yet.
 BO> yup.  why be around people that can't handle it?  For me, it's
 BO> because being around flatheads is better than feeling alone.  And
 BO> in reality, it IS being alone.  Paradoxical, no?
Paradoxical, yes.  And that's precisely the dilemma I'm in.  I think
the place to look is what do I really *get* out of the relationships.
There may be a healthy need that they *do* meet...but I can't see
that, because I'm still looking for them to fill the needs that they,
because of their own stuff, can't.  As I get more comfortable with
finding other places and people who can meet those needs, it is 
possible that I might find out what they *can* give me.  This is all
a theory, mind you.  I haven't road-tested it.  I'm not there yet.
 
 HL> Yes.  As I said on the phone, this is a result of the beginning work
 HL> I've done on this go 'round on 6 & 7.  I asked for the stuff that
 HL> was standing in the way of my having meaningful, intimate,
 HL> relationships removed, and I'm smack in the middle of my FOO issues. 
 HL> Not a coincidence!
 BO> Nope.  When yer having problems with speaking english, ya gotta go
 BO> back to who and how you got taught.  Ya gotta go back to the
 BO> "rules".
Yes.  And this has given me a completely different twist on 6 & 7.  
Now I get to look at what parts of me I need to accept.  Soon after
the 5th step that I did this past weekend, I was thinking about
the Serenity Prayer.  I realized that I needed to accept the 
things I can not change....myself.  Who I am, really.  Have the 
courage to change the things I can.  Again, myself.  And the 
wisdom to know the difference.  Which parts do I need to accept,
which parts do I need to change.  And in the context of the Serenity
Prayer, I realize that I definately need the help of powers greater
than myself...it seems mostly to start on the last part of it...which
parts do I keep, which do I let go of...then I can work on the first
two.
 
 HL> lived my life.  Until I get a call from one of them saying that it's
 HL> been *months* since they heard from me....and the toxic shame spiral
 HL> starts.
 BO> It's a trip to see how much the life-less ones need us in order to
 BO> keep their drama happening.
Yes.  Our drama is *so* much more interesting than theirs ;-/
 
 HL> Massage Therapist Journal about how, physically, somatic memory
 HL> works.  It's the first time anyone has explored that there *is* 
 HL> quantifiable muscle memory on the cellular level.
 BO> The hologram has to be grounded somewhere.
Yes.
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