-> 
->  ->>>> No, it is life and death, whether you like it or not.
-> 
->  J>>> It's like getting a tooth pulled.
-> 
-> 
->  RS>>>>> You remember what abortion was like, *PRIOR*
to Roe V. Wade?
->  RS>>>>> A hodgepodge of laws from state to state,
with rich women
paying
->  RS>>>>> under the table or going on "European
Vacations."
->  RS>>>>> And poor women died.
->  J>>> This was true when I was growing up.
-> 
->  ->> Fewer women got abortions back then.
->  J> Perhaps. As it was a scandalous illegal act, fewer were reported.
-> 
-> So, how do you know what Sauer said was true when you were growing up?

I stand corrected. What I should have said is 'that is what I heard, read
and got the impression of in my youth. I was wrong about a lot of things
when I was young.


-> 
->  ->>>> That makes no sense.  What they want is life.  You
distort the
->  J> issue so
->  ->>>> that you can sleep well at night...
-> 
->  J>>> THAT is worth my consideration...:-|
-> 
->  J>>>   In none of your response did you show
->  ->>>> any concern for the unborn.  None at all.  That is telling.
-> 
->  J>>> Yep. A child is born alive when the first breath of
air is taken.
-> 
->  ->> It is alive long before that.
-> 
->  J> :-) My birth certificate says: "Born alive"
-> 
-> I certainly hope so.

:-) I read it with some relief. :-)

-> 
-> Obviously you weren't dead in the womb.
There was no "I" in the womb. There was a mechanism, assembling, becoming
usable. The engine started when it started to breathe. Then senses
conjoined and neurons flowed with input from surroundings..._I_ came into
existence sometime later...
-> 
-> 
->  J>>> Prior to that it is just a bunch of interesting collections of
->  J> molecules...
-> 
->  ->> That's what those who want to dehumanize the unborn in order to
sleep
->  J> better at
->  ->> night.
->  J> Well, I sleep very well, without a thought concerning abortion. :-)
-> 
-> Good for you.
-> 
->  J> And, awake, have no desire for an unwanted child to be brought into
this
->  J> world. Or forcing any woman to do so.
-> 
-> Ah yes, death is better than being wanted...

Abortion is a sad decision, IMO to be made by the woman.


-> And we can't force those women to
-> take responsibility for their actions.

What is puzzling to me is that those who protest loudly against abortions
because it is interfering with God (Or The Natural Order of things)...
generally make exception in the case of rape or incest...God, it seems
would agree with THOSE abortions...(Or bodies who naturally abort...)

 
-> Fine, but please come into the discussion honestly and admit that
abortion is
-> ending a human life.

I honestly don't believe that. It is the termination of a pregnancy. 
A human life has not begun.

 
->  ->> It isn't Catholic dogma.
->  J> It most certainly is.
-> 
-> No, it is not.

So you think. I believe erroneously. I've talked to a few priests and a few
parishioners and read some that indicate otherwise. 
-> 
 
->...So you also think we should unplug all those accident victims on life
-> support too if they aren't convenient?
All? No. Some? Depends. If the neuron aren't firing...there's no one there. 
 
-> We differ in a lot of things.

Yep.

 
->  J>>> economic slavery .... the choice of Leo Strauss and
the neocons...
-> 
->  ->> "[E]conomic slavery?"
->  J> Yes. Absolute servitude to the elitists.

-> 
-> You mean like...

I don't 'mean like anything other than what I've said.
Nothing in the current administration has anything to do with the Political
Philosophy of Leo Strauss. (Which as interpreted by the Neocons is scary as
hell.

(Tangential, and redefining of elite):

-> .... serving Obama and his elitist administration? Where is having the
-> authority to fire the CEO of a corporation in the Constitution? Where is
the
-> authority for forcing another corporation to merge with another?

The same authority that FDR has in closing the banks, introducing Social
Security et cetera...

-> 
-> Is it not elitist for the director of Homeland Security to release an
advisory
-> labeling anyone who disagrees with the president a right-wing extremist
and
-> potential terrorist?
Couldn't find that: I Googled "Homeland security" got a LOT of information
there...where is your source? It seem HIGHLY unlikely...
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