-=> Lee Lofaso wrote to Alan Ianson <=-

 AI> It is a bunch of sysops chatting amongst themselves in the case of those
 AI> two echoes.

 LL> Sysops are welcome to chat anywhere and everywhere they like.
 LL> The same should be true for non-sysops as well.

The same has always been true for non-sysops as well.

The vast majority of what sysops have been doing all these years is to
facilitate communication freely by everyone, whoever that may be.

In the case of those two sysop echoes, they are places where sysops have had
conversation amongst themselves. We have enjoyed each others company all
these years as well as participate in echoes open to everyone.

It is a place where we converse with other sysops. We have taken nothing
from anyone.

 LL> Limiting access is anti-democratic.  Just as limiting voting.
 LL> Censorship is even worse.  That is why all such "rules" should
 LL> be ignored, having no legitimacy.

There is nothing anti-democratic about sysops having discussions amongst
themselves.

 LL> When a small handful of sysops get together and seek to impose
 LL> their will on others, including those who have not been given a
 LL> say in the matter, it is an act of force and coercion.  A desire
 LL> of getting something for nothing.

Sysops are not seeking to impose anything on anyone.

 LL> Both sysops and non-sysops are individuals whose goals should be
 LL> the same (in regards to FidoNet).  However, some sysops seek to use
 LL> a forced exchange as opposed to a voluntary exchange as a means of
 LL> satisfying their own needs and wants.  And that is where our views
 LL> differ.

I don't see anything being forced on anyone.

 LL> Forced coercion implies violence or the threat of violence.
 LL> Would it not be better to use persuasion and cooperation to get
 LL> what you want or desire?  Of course, if you have no leg to stand
 LL> on, I can understand your want to use threats of force to get
 LL> what you want.  But there is nothing moral at all in so doing.

There is nothing for me to get here, forced or volutary.

 LL> There is no need for anyone to have a node number in order to
 LL> participate in a general chat echo.  Participants are free to come
 LL> and go as they please, with or without a node number. 

That's true. You can access fidonet echoes and netmail in a number of
different ways. As long as someone has setup the software and it does what
you need it to do you are good to go.

 LL> There is not even a need for a moderator.  So why have either?

It was moderators who originaly setup all these echo areas in the first
place. Without them there wouldn't be any echoes.

 AI> It was a blip on the radar like so many things in life but I am glad to
 AI> have been and continue to be a part of it.

 LL> And I hope FidoNet will be around for many generations to come,
 LL> even if that means a different form, given changes in technology.

I do too. All I can really do though is my best to keep the system up and
operating well.

 AI> Yes, all within echo rules, wouldn't you agree?

 LL> Liberty is anarchy.  That is what I believe, and what all should
 LL> believe.  It is the only thing worthy of belief, in my opinion.

Liberty and anarchy are two very different things.


 Ttyl :-),
         Al

... Disclaimer: Advice void where prohibitted by common sense!
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.50