BL> This is the point I was making... 40 years ago I could predict
BL> where I would end up (not as it turned out, in fact) but today there
BL> is no way to know. I suppose the 60s were the end of predictabilty.

FM> My point is, and why I think "nothing's changed" is
FM> that I didn't know in 1966 what I wanted to do either.

BL> In 1956 prediction was easy.

Nope.

BL> I am not discussing kids such as you were, who don't have a future clear
BL> in their mind. This will always exist, and may make one career-change after
BL> another, or may never settle. I am discussing the basic *impossibility* of
BL> choosing any careeer that will last longer than 10 years.

Poor old Bob, totally into his senile dotage now.

BL> In 1956, once I decided to be an electronics engineer,
BL> I did so expecting it to be a lifetime's work.

And it wasnt, the plug got pulled on domestic
electronics manufacturing. nothings changed.

The same thing had been happening for DECADES even by 1956 Bob.
Much of the US woollen mills went down the tubes well before that.

BL> In fact I got about 40 years out of it
BL> without actually having to swap careers.

And thats quite feasible starting even today Bob. Plenty of examples.

Just like it was in say 75, with it being perfectly obvious
that 40 years will be feasible, and 65 too for that matter.

BL> Manufacturing died in Australia after 25
BL> years, and the last 15 has been a slow collapse.

And plenty of other industrys didnt, most obviously the service
ones. Or TV or banking or food, etc etc etc. Nothings changed.

BL> Now electronic engineering no longer exists in Australia.

Pigs arse it doesnt.

BL> What remains is programming and backyard buggery.

Pigs arse it does. And there are plenty of industrys that didnt happen
to even if it did to domestic electronics manufacturing. Poor old Bob.

BL> Engineering, it is not.

Pigs arse its not. Yours was even more of a backyard operation,
a fool who didnt have a clue, thrashing around knowing sweet
fuck all about anything much, producing arguably the worst TV
thats ever been seen outside the communist bloc. Nothings changed.

BL> The kids who followed me into electronics in 1970 were caught out.

So were some in the 30s Bob. Some werent too. Nothings changed.

BL> Some went to production engineering, sales, computers, ofsshore...

So ?

BL> but whatever they did, they had to change career.

That happened in the 30s too Bob.

BL> Today, this is normal.

Its not really any different to say in the 20s, it happened then too.

BL> Paul reaches his pinnacle at the age of 28, and by the
BL> turn of the Century programming will no longer exist.

By 2000 ?  Poor completely silly senile old Bob.

BL> Hi-tech careers bloom and vanish inside 20 years.

Fraid not. Even you should be able to notice that stockbrokers and
accountants have been around for a FUCKING sight longer than that.

Poor old Bob.

BL> So what Tertiary qualification do you choose?

No different to the choice in the 50s or 60s Bob.

Even you should have noticed that we do still build
roads, airports, bridges, buildings, etc etc etc.

We still have a need for those with medical qualifications,
accountancy, law, or even just small business, tho you dont
need tertiary qualifications.

Poor old Bob.

BL> Do you go for something specific or something broad?

That choice hasnt changed either.

BL> A broad qualification will never let you build
BL> expertise you can sell and salt away as cash;

Usual utterly mindless bullshit.

BL> a narrow qualification will need renewal and a new start...

Usual utterly mindless bullshit.

BL> just around the time your expertise is valuable and convertible into cash.

Usual utterly mindless bullshit.

BL> I was years ahead of my time.

You actually had your dick in your hand, never stopped.

BL> I saw this coming in my 20s.

Well whoopy fucking do Bob. You may not have actually been
the only one to have seen something coming in your 20s Bob.

BL> One needs to generate a high earning capability
BL> and run it for a few years, to store nuts for the
BL> coming winter... when your skill is worth peanuts.

Fraid the real world has moved on just a tad since then Bob.

Corse you just keep furiously living in the past like you always do.

You might care to look at what most people who retire do retire with Bob.

Sure, there are always some duds like yourself, but they have always
been with us too, precisely the same thing happened even last century.

BL> I got a long-enough run to save money, but
BL> what happens now, for kids just starting out?

Plenty of them manage to do that fine Bob.

BL> Will they ever get a long-enough run to convert skill into cash?

Yep, they're doing it in droves.

Paul has even accumulated a better set of
assets at his age than you did at that age too.

Keef and the wog appear to be doing adequately too.

Guess whose just had his complete load of utterly mindless
bullshit blow up in his face and cover him in black stuff. Again ?

BL> I don't think there is a danger in a narrow education.
BL> You learn as you go along anyway, and mostly you learn
BL> how to learn, but the waste is prodigous!

FM> I don't think there is a danger in a vocationally-oriented
FM> education either - for some. We need to reverse the travesty
FM> of Dawkins, and have proper tertiary (and secondary for that
FM> matter) technical schools which can teach the higher levels
FM> of the trades like engineering, law and medicine.

BL> I think so too. I think universities have run their
BL> course. The polytechnic seems the way to go, to me.

Usual mindless bullshit. Wont be happening any time soon you senile fart.

BL> Personally, I think the answer is a shortened non-Uni education
BL> that finishes High School at 16, and goes on to a polytechnic for
BL> 4 years. I can't see that universtities have a function any more.

Poor old Bob.

BL> A profession will no longer be recognisable after 20 years,

Odd, looks quite remarkably like accounting, medicine, law, etc etc etc
all are quite recognisable after 20 years. Poor silly senile old Bob.

BL> and if this is so,

It aint, soorree.

BL> the Uni will always be teaching 10 years out of date!

They always have done, always will do Bob. They ALSO provide
whats needed for anyone with half a brain to be able to carry
on from that to what that particular sector has moved on to too.

It was ever thus.

FM> I agree with the first sentence above. But pure,
FM> non goal-directed learning will enhance the long-term
FM> potential of any society which embraces it.

We dont need that many doing that tho. Never have. In fact we have
added IMMENSE numbers doing that since the war. With plenty of evidence
that plenty of those dont actually produce much of much value too.

BL> Okay. I see no problem in one *true* University per 5 million population.

Usual furiously living in the past stuff.

BL> Universities have become sausage machines trying to serve a population

They've just absorbed more of the vocational training. They always
did have quite a bit of that, and have rather more than they used to.

BL> with no use or need for philosophy in a hi-tek world.

Sure, sweet fuck all of much value has ever come out of that over say the last
100 years. Most of its just been a sheltered workshop for complete wankers.

BL> Thsi is best done by a polytechnic.

The worlds moved on. Thats basically what the vast bulk of
the unis actually are in the sense of where the money is spent.

BL> My University would not be for philosophy, it would be
BL> for pure research, and take the best of the Polytechnics.

Soorree, you dont get wankers who do philosophy in those.

BL> We need philosphy in 1997 like we need bigger dicks.

Sure, its of no real value. But then it aint costing much
either. We probably spend less on it than we do on say ballet.
@EOT:

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