-=> Quoting Rod Speed to John Tserkezis <=-

Hello Rod,

 JT> Technically, I think either as a point, BBS
 JT> user or whatever, it is classed as a "feed".

 RS> Pity that the great unwashed, users etc, are
 RS> irrelevant on 'feeds' as far as P4 is concerned.
 RS> Taint possible to excommunicate a user, only a sysop.

 As far as P4 is concerned, yes.  P4 though is rather grey in the area of
"feed" and does not specify an exact type of feed.  If paul were to start
posting as a BBS user, with my origin line down the bottom you can bet they
will have something to say about it.  Heck, I've only reposted a damn file,
and DM is threatening to slap a PC on me.
 P4 is very vague all over the place.  The power mongers like it like that.

 RS> They also have no say whatever on what you two choose
 RS> to do with a non fido echo between yourselves either.

 I am arguing the point that I am not providing a _fido_ feed, IE, fido
netmail, or fido echomail.  And I'm not.  They are rather pissed about it too.
I suspect they know there is some type of feed between us.  Pity for them it's
a private feed, and only a suspicion at that.
 If they do find out, I bet they will argue the point that it IS a feed,
because the zone and node numbers are/were fido.  Only a small point to change
to a different zone though.  The holes in P4 compete with the holes in the
ozone layer.

 RS> Corse you may CHOOSE to not have to go thru the rigmarole
 RS> of rubbing their noses in their error in a legal sense too.

 Where will that get me?  Or not get me as the case may be?  The only case
DM had against paul was the abuse.  Take that away and you are left with
a net censor.
 
 JT> You simply giving me a file to send out is stretching it just a bit,
 JT> well, it actually stretches it just a lot, but still well within
 JT> the defined limits set by DM.  He makes his own rules remember?

 RS> Sure, but that doesnt mean he gets to have any rule he likes.

 Yeah?  If you don't already have it, freq POLICY from here.  Read it.  Notice
that it has holes in it big enough to drive internet standards through?  With
a fleet of semi-trailers?  Extra-wide load?  UUEncoded?

 RS> The most obvious example was that utterly mindless bullshit involved with
 RS> the suspension becoming indefinite if Paul ever dared to mention it to a
 RS> soul. 

 That's the advantage of P4.  Its holes are not only big, they are flexible
as well.  The only thing that will change their minds is massive public outcry
as is happening in ZONE3_SYSOP.
 But everyone's been screaming that fido is not a democracy.  If that's true,
why hasn't DM replied AT ALL about my posting of his private netmail to paul?
 You think that outcry about "public posting of netmail" thread
had anything
to do with it?  You WERE right Rod, the people CAN change the law.

 JT> Mind you, he was rather careful in his wording to me, he said
 JT> that he, as a single node, would place a PC against me, another
 JT> single node, and that the NC (ted) would be the one to make the
 JT> decision. He was very clear with that bit, and after what happened
 JT> in zone3_sysop, I don't think he would try it any other way. :-)
 
 JT> But really though, the whole situation has turned into another
 JT> slang match. The original one was verbal abuse due to threats.
 JT> Now it is verbal abuse between differing interpretations of policy,
 JT> by nodes who have no authority to make the ultamate decision anyway.

 RS> Yeah, he appears to have just decided to cause as much
 RS> damage as he can on the way out basically. Rather obscene.

 He is a coward.  He steps down right after he does it.  I can't speak for
Kevin Mann, but HIS resignation is very suspect WRT the timing.  Rumor has it
they are chummy too.  David Nugent isnt' helping either.  Everyone is just
repeating the same old dribble again and again.  There is no new constructive
comment anymore, and now there is new abuse flying.  The horse has been
flogged so much they are just flogging the damn coffin now.  And David Nugent
is STILL sitting on his hands.
 
 JT> So far, he has verified that David Nugent was one of the
 JT> persons consulted and OKed the excommunication, this is
 JT> no real suprise, but useful for those who are keeping tabs.
 
 PE> WHAT???  David Nugent OK'd the excommunication?  How do you know that?
 PE> That's certainly not the gist of what David was saying previously.
 
 JT> Look at the above DM quote.  "As agreed by the
 JT> ZC, Paul Edwards was validly suspended for 6 weeks"

 RS> Trouble is we have also seen a quote from somewhere where Nugent ALSO
 RS> appeared to be saying that he thought that that stank to high heaven.

 Only quoting what DM had in his message to me.  I'll keep that noted though.
If DN did indeed NOT agree with the excommunication, then he may have something
to say about it in front of DM who will be desperately trying to make himself
look credible.
 Do you remember which echo it appeared in?  If it's in zone3sysop or R54sysop,
I can go back to have a look.

 RS> Corse he is rather notorious for some FUCKING bizarre interpretations
 RS> of the rules, so he may have essentially been saying that he thought
 RS> that that stank to high heaven, but was within the power of an NC to
 RS> do. 

 I think he's gone too far now to start moderating.  If he starts now it will
look bad.  He did mention that he expects it to run out of its own steam at
some time.  I predict it will die a natural death, which is what DN wants.
When?  I dunno.  Unless of course someone opens another can of worms.

 JT> as far as I am currently aware, ZC stands for Zone Co-ordinator,
 JT> and the said ZC would mean OUR ZC, who is currently David Nugent.

 RS> Sure, that bit seems pretty clear. Corse I wouldnt put
 RS> it past More to deliberately tell flagrant lies either.

 They are not lies, really.  They all comply with P4.  As matter of fact, I've
read about Hitler in my encyclopedia, (just dusted them off) and hey!  How
about that?!  Hitler could in fact have complied with P4 if he wanted to as
well.

 So we need a new policy then eh?  Ok first we need an IC to oversee the
situation, but wait- there is no IC?  Gee that's too bad, can't change it then.

John Tserkezis, Sydney, Oz. Fidonet: 3:712/610  Internet: jt{at}suburbia.com.au

... Look Ma, No Brain!!!!
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