Charles Angelich wrote in a message to Roy J. Tellason:

RJT>>> Probably 90%+ of what was in that store consisted of that and 
RJT>>> packaging... 

CA>>> Yes, from an adult perspective it is just trash. In the hands of 
CA>>> a child who can supply all the imagination and fantasy they are 
CA>>> valuable things to be treasured. All in life is this way. At my 
CA>>> age much of what I valued some years back is now just trash. 

RJT> To a point, but I can still relate to a kid's view of things, and 
RJT> these grandkids help me keep that perspective. If I start to lose 
RJT> it they remind me. 

CA> I try but I forget at times that children place no dollar value on 
CA> their possessions. The joke is to buy an expensive toy then watch
CA> them play with the box it came in. Does happen.

Sure does.  Part of that is that there are some toys where "you're
supposed to" play with it a certain way,  according to what the
designers had in mind,  and they miss it by a mile when it comes to
anything that's going to be intuitive to kids.  Doesn't happen too often, 
but it does happen.

CA> --8<--cut 

CA>> Children can learn things from toys, just not what we learned. The 
CA>> world has changed and much of what I learned is only marginally 
CA>> relevant today.

RJT> I think that it used to be a lot more common for folks to work 
RJT> with their hands, and that these days an awful lot of people would 
RJT> tend to pay somebody else to do that same kind of work. That's 
RJT> reflected in some of the stuff we're talking about here,  in terms 
RJT> of what sorts of toys are out there. 

CA> I was going to buy a grandchild one of those see through engine 
CA> models then realized his father had no auto mechanical skills at
CA> all and it would make his father look stupid so I didn't get it.

Do they still have that out?  I remember the "Visible V-8". 
Didn't know they still made it...

RJT>> I don't even know if they make such stuff any more, haven't even 
RJT>> heard of a "chemistry set" in ages. 

CA>> Alan Zismna mentioned a $100 microscope that attaches to the USB  
CA>> port and displays on the computer monitor that his school has for 
CA>> the children. It's comparatively low power but as a child I would 
CA>> have enjoyed using it.

RJT> Sure. I wouldn't mind something of the sort myself, but the 
RJT> quality of what's out there at the lower end of the price range is 
RJT> *way* lower than what it used to be.

CA> People bought things to keep them. They didn't want plastic or 
CA> cardboard and they paid for it. 

Just so!

CA> If you look back at prices you can see that people were 'investing' 
CA> in those toys not just buying throwaway junk.

I get really tired of throwing away junk,  of contributing unnecessarily to
the landfill just to keep things rolling along.  I try to shop for quality
when I can,  but there's so much junk out there!



CA>> Patternmaking is tricky because you must visualize solids in 
CA>> reverse and use double metal shrink 

RJT> What's that? 

CA> The pattern is heated to cook the sand and cause it to solidify. 
CA> The heat expands the size of the patttern. This has to be allowed 
CA> for (making the pattern smaller at room temperature). The metal 
CA> poured into the sand mold is at liguid temperatures and when it 
CA> cools the 'part' shrinks. This shrinkage must also be allowed for 
CA> by making the pattern smaller - again.  In semi-permanent molds the 
CA> metal (aluminum) is poored directly into the cast-iron mold and 
CA> that heat shrinkage has to be allowed for.  Diecast has the same 
CA> problem with metal injected into a metal mold.  I have built all of 
CA> these plus molds for plastics and foams.

Sounds complicated...

CA>> at times plus work with compound angles on most surfaces. It is 
CA>> the longest of all the metal working apprenticeships requiring 
CA>> more tech classes than the others. I have most, if not all, the 
CA>> required schooling and training to match all of the other metal 
CA>> working trades. That's why patternmakers are considered master 
CA>> mechanics and not just another metal working trade. 

RJT> I must admit to ignorance when it comes to the schooling involved 
RJT> in this stuff too. Closest I came to that was "metal shop" in high 
RJT> school, and one short semester in "machine shop", where I had a 
RJT> lot of fun but didn't get a whole lot done. 

CA> Metallurgy, drafting plus design, computer assisted machine 
CA> programming, and lots of math up to solid geometry (compound 
CA> angles). There are other classes but these are the major 
CA> categories.

Speaking of computer assisted stuff,  I wonder at how far that's gone since
it was introduced.  I've had very little ocntact with it,  mostly limited
to repairs of the electronics on a few machines,  but I get the impression
that some of them are fairly sophisticated.

In fact,  I wouldn't mind ending up with something that could do
"machining" in a light-duty sense of the word,  maybe similar to
a flatbed plotter?



CA> I would be awkward and slow in wood requiring additional training 
CA> for the materials used. Wood patternmakers have similar problems 
CA> not being proficient at moving metal as is required. Woodshop 
CA> machinery is not my 'thing' but wood patternmakers don't run 20 
CA> head duplicators or milling machines two stories tall large enough 
CA> to park a volkswagen on the table either. :-)

Speaking of wood working,  the local PBS station runs one show on saturday
afternoons that's a guy who goes as far as he can toward the "old
fashioned" way of doing things,  all hand-operated (and some
hand-made) tools,  while the show that follows it comes as close to
"machine shop" as you can get and still be working with wood. 
It's an interesting contrast.  

CA> The basic classroom training is identical, the knowledge of math, 
CA> drafting, and design are the same. How this is put into practice 
CA> and the manual skills of using the proper tools at the proper time 
CA> are different from one to the other.

I'll bet.

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