On 3/09/2016 4:03 PM, Alan Ianson -> David Drummond wrote:

 AI>>> Those two echoes have always been sysop echoes where sysops
 AI>>> discussed whatever was on their minds.

 DD>> Yes - chatter. No reason to exclude non-listed from that.

 AI> Yes - Sysops chattering. That's the part you keep missing.

What is so special about "sysop chatter" that mere mortals should not see?

 DD>> What percentage of those users are renegade - and what percentage of
 DD>> those renegades need to be brought to the whole sysop world's
 DD>> attention that we need a special place to do it?

 AI> I have nothing here but fido and othernet msg bases, shareware and a few
 AI> games. There is nothing here for renegades so they are not a problem.

Welcome to the 21st century - I doubt that there are renegade users anywhere.

 DD>> You have you net/region/zone echo for sysop business. Chatter is just
 DD>> chatter.

 AI> Yes we do, but then sysops from other zones would be missing. That's not
 AI> a good thing. Fidonet is bigger than net/region/zone.

Not in an administrative sense. At the international level we are all just
chatterers.

 DD>> You still have FN_SYSOP and FIDO_SYSOP to chatter in, access has not
 DD>> been removed from you, you have lost nothing.

 AI> Under your plan we will have lost our sysop echo. It would become a chat
 AI> echo.

It already is just a chat echo.

 DD>> We gain potentially a few more opinions/threads by allowing others in.

 AI> Here in fidonet we have every opportunity for opinions/threads. If you
 AI> don't have an area for that just connect to one.

Already have - FN_SYSOP and FIDO_SYSOP (and this one).

 AI>>> Those two echoes are sysop-only echoes where sysops chat between
 AI>>> themselves. No elitest snobery or secrets about it,

 DD>> "sysops only" defines exclusivity - elitist snobbery!

 AI> It's no more elitist than people who enjoy cooking to chat in the
 AI> cooking echo, or people who run synchronet to chat (technical maybe) in
 AI> the synchronet echo, or people who run mystic to chat in the mystic area.

Do they exclude non-cooks, or non users of that software, from accessing the
areas? It is your urge for exclusion of "lesser beings" that makes your
behaviour elitist snobbery.

 DD>> FN_SYSOP, and FIDO_SYSOP is where we all are though if they want to
 DD>> chat with us, that is where we are.

 AI> We are there because that is our echo. That was the idea when the echo
 AI> was created and that meaning was made clear. If that's not what your
 AI> looking for then you are in the wrong place.

FN_SYSOP and FIDO_SYSOP are exactly the right places. Those are where the
majority are chatting.

-- 

Regards
David

E&OE

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