BK>>BK>> JB> When they are standing there with a bomb in their hands,
BK>>BK>> JB> you are free to call then whatever you want.  I just want
BK>>BK>> JB> them dead, not in a courtroom full of lawyers.

BK>>BK>> Not knowing the difference can be fatal. Know your enemy,
BK>>BK>> remember?

BK>> JB> At least we both agree they are the enemy.  That puts you
BK>> JB> slightly ahead of the average liberal.  I don't care what
BK>> JB> we call them, you do.

BK>> That's because I am not looking forward to eternal war. Are
BK>> you? Unless you intend to continue the war until the last
BK>> insurgent is captured or dead, the difference is exceedingly
BK>> important. Sooner or later we have to work with the other side
BK>> to make peace, or continue the war pretty much forever. We will
BK>> never get all the insurgents.

 JB> All wars end when one side gives up the will to fight.   No
 JB> war is eternal.  Never has been, never will be.  You
 JB> believe the Arab street nonsense.

 It wasn't Asian street nonsense in Vietnam. Can't recall who
 said it, but the locals have an advantage, as far as staying the
 course, they have nowhere to go.

 And it isn't Arab Street nonsense when Bush declares war on
 terror. Terror is a tactic, not an enemy. When you can't find
 the enemy you can't win the war.

 The war in Iraq can go on as long as the locals are willing to
 fight, and they have a near endless supply of recruits. Until we
 change our strategy to one of rebuilding for the locals, instead
 of for Haliburton, we have little chance of winning.

 See, what you don't realize is, there is no way this country can
 win that war without actually winning the hearts and minds of
 the people. The only other alternative is the brutality and
 indifference to human life that made Saddam successful. Until we
 start wiping out villages as punishment for the death of a
 single American soldier, and killing 10 or 100 or 1000 in the
 cities for the death of a single Americans soldier, we will not
 be able to suppress the resistance. When we reach that point,
 and there are all too many in this country who would be willing
 to, we reach the point where overthrowing Saddam was a mistake.
 He was no worse than that, and he was more efficient at it.

BK>> You can make peace with insurgents. I can't see how to make
BK>> peace with terrorists. Not only do I not see how, since the main
BK>> victims of the terrorists are Iraqis, it's not even our right to
BK>> do so.

 JB> You let me know when you have the secret decoder ring to
 JB> tell insurgents apart from terrorists.  Then sell it to the
 JB> military.

 Duh! That's the point I'm trying to get through to you.

 And when you have the secret decoder ring to tell the insurgents
 and terrorists from the innocent Iraqis you be sure to tell us,
 and sell it to the military. Without that you can't stop the
 killing. Remember the Iraqi police recruits who killed their
 American trainers? Now the US military is arming Sunnis to fight
 Al Qaeda, with no way of knowing if they are arming Al Qaeda,
 arming the non-Al Qaeda insurgents, or just arming the sectarian
 militias who will go out and kill Shia.

 Remember, it was the sunnis who were the instigators of the
 insurgency, and Al Qaeda is a Sunni operation. Yet you don't see
 us arming the Shia, now do you? Oh, yeah, the Iraqi military and
 police who are under Shia control. Yeah, good way to avoid a
 civil war. Well, maybe they will just decide to split up the
 country after all. Take the decision out of our hands.

 Though the best way for the Iraqis to force us out would be to
 ship them a few million copies of "On The Duty of Civil
 Disobendience", by Thoreu, and the history of the non-violent
 civil rights movement in this country, and Ghandi's non-violent
 resistance. Put a few thousand unarmed Iraqis blocking the
 streets out of our military compounds and the troops could not
 move. They would force us to conceed in a month.

 After that keeping it non-violent is the question. If they could
 get Sunni and Shia to work together to do it then it might carry
 over. Otherwise, who knows?

BOB KLAHN bob.klahn{at}sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... I know it all.  I just can't remember much of it.
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