-> or a king was not relevant.  The authority of the Semite prophets lies in
 -> their claim that they speak for God.  The authority of an author like
 -> Aristotle, Thales, or Plato, or leaders like Pericles and Solon, lies in
 -> a body of work which has proved both visionary and prudent, the truth
 -> following from the presentation of logic.
 HW> I take it you haven't read Plato's Timaeus or Symposium. What do you
 HW> make of Socrates' references to his daemon? Plato's Republic suggest
 HW> direct access to the Form of the Good... Do you find this a _truth
 HW> following from the presentation of logic? I don't know where you are
 HW> going with this, but yes each nation does have a "flavor" to its
 HW> thought/writings.  OTOH both Jews and Greeks have produced both
 HW> visionaries and philosophers;  indeed it's not always clear how to
 HW> separate the two roles. Peace. Hal.
   I will  not presume to rush to Day's defense as he is perfectly capable of
defending himself but will take the opportunity to observe that a "paradigm
laid up in heaven" with a political construction needing to be shaped by men
as members of poleis is different in degree from the call to unswerving
obedience to a God who becomes increasingly universal over a people who
experience history as the "present under God" as it forms the essence of 
heir
being.  They are given Caanan as a "possession forever" without reference to
wise or unwise political action while in the Greek experience participation 
n
the marketplace and determination by citizens of their political destinies as
the over-arching backdrop for the philosophizing of Plato and his
predecessors.  BOTH experiences form the "Old Testatment" of Western
Civilization just as both experiences played a role in the formation of
Christianity which in the course of time became the dominant force in the
Roman ecumene and its successor kingdoms.  
   You do have an important point if you are emphasizing the truth that the
symbol, "revelation" has been wrongly attributed ONLY to the Hebrew followers
of Moses and the prophets because "reason" was also a "revelation" for the
Greek philosophers.  Philosophy could also degenerate into doctrines as it 
ad
by the time of Cicero and the Hebrew response to challenge to the theocracy
was to split into two dominant and opposing viewpoints - one of them
withdrawing into a shell with the "word of God" shrinking into a "written"
word, immutable and dominant, the other opening into a missionary movement in
which a "Christ" emerges as a "living" word as an appeal to universality.  
   And then beyond the confines of western world OTHER experiences of order
were following their own courses as in China and India and in the further
experience of the prophetic experience as it issued in Mohammed and Islam.
   Here in the United States we are experiencing, it seems to me the conflict
in a challenging sense.  On the one hand, we revere our "founding fathers" 
or
their following of the political wisdom available to them in the shaping of a
new nation while at the same time many of the dominant voices in the land 
eep
up the cry that "America is a 'Christian' nation" with the peculiar ring that
has to the reality of a nation of immigrants and people of widely varying
religious outlooks.  
Sincerely, 
                                     Frank
                                                                              
                                                       
--- PPoint 2.05
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