1237c450af3c
tech



Hello Tom - 

TW>>> Yes but they still produce the Finest Engineers in the
TW>>> World. 

->> Give an example. I know of nothing 'engineered' in India
->> that is considered remarkable or even above average. Last I
->> read about India they can't keep running water and
->> electricity going. 

TW> They Don't stay in India and Work. After the Finest in the
TW> World Goverment Subsidized Education they go to other
TW> Countries, The United States in Particualrly. 

Odd that some of the richest families in the world send their
kids here to Michigan universities then, isn't it? 

My _personal_ experiences have been somewhat different. I think
Switzerland and the Netherlands have produced many of the
people who are making amazing contributions of software almost
on a daily basis. I see nothing coming from India or people
from India. I'm not everywhere all of the time but I also
noticed a great many Japanese programmers producing
one-of-a-kind new software apps for computer generated music.
Again, nothing from India. 

Try to find websites that are from India or even have an Indian
'webmaster'. The websites supporting freeware and/or opensource
_original_ software apps are more likely going to be US,
German, UK, the Netherlands, Japan, etc. NOT Indian. 

TW> They are out there and are a Siginificant factor in the
TW> Engineering Fields. There was a recent 60 Minutes Followup
TW> on this subject. 

60 Minutes is not the program it used to be. When they cover a
subject I am familiar with (more than average familiarity) I
notice huge mistakes and grand assumptions based on a few hours
of conversation with a limited number of persons. 

TW>>> And in the Computer Area their Average Computer engineer
TW>>> beats out best most of the time. 

->> Again, examples? I have not found any indication of this at
->> all anywhere. 

TW> you haven't been Looking Then. Although their presence is
TW> not visable as they quietly in the Background do theri Wrok. 

Humans (all nations) assume that quiet people are 'thinkers'.
This may or may not be true. I find quiet people lack
imagination which would explain the lack of new (not cloned)
software being written by people from India.  You are mistaking
a docile worker-bee mentality as some sort of 'genius'.

Keep in mind that India _did_ invent 'fakir' as a profession.
:-) 

TW> But many have moved up since graduation and are not in Top
TW> management positions of some corporations. 

If you keep your mouth shut and stay out of trouble as others
get themselves fired for having opinions/ideas you can easilly
become a 'manager'. Longevity plays a huge role in moving 'up'
in the corporate structures. 

TW> As far as Examples I had the pleasure to interfasce with
TW> one of the Hewlett Packard Software Engineers and their
TW> Highspeed Serial Interface that ties together some of their
TW> Medical Monitoring systems is an example. It was a
TW> marvelious work for it's day, The 80's. 

With a population many multiples of ours they produced one
person that impressed you. We have Wozniak, Gates, Stallman
(GNU), Tom Jennings (FIDO), the man who created the TRS80
Steven Leininger , and a long long list of others. Not
impressive enough? 

TW> Again the Recent 60 Minutes Upgrade of the spot they did
TW> many years ago proves my point. 

I am restraining myself here to not over emphasize how
unreliable 60 Minutes has become in recent years. Watching the
"Modern Marvels" on cable or even the History Channel has
proven to be more in line with my own observations when the
topics are well known to me from life experiences (not from
books). 

->> AFAIK the IBM and Microsoft decisions to use India's people
->> has been based solely on wages. They can get a husband/wife
->> team of programmers for the price of one American. 

->> Since both IBM and Microsoft have been using them do you
->> see remarkable improvements in their software? I don't. 

TW> As for IBM they have some of the Best big Business Software
TW> in the World. 

As does ORACLE, one of their few competitors. I don't hear talk
of Oracle going to India (maybe they have and I just don't hear
about it?). 

TW> And the Finger Prints of the Indian Programers are there. 

The finger prints of 100 times as many Americans are there as
well. :-) 

TW> They of course Abandoned the Home market many years ago
TW> after being Screwed by Microsoft so of course you don't see
TW> anything. 

IBM was arrogant in their negotiations with Microsoft and
screwed themselves trying to be 'tricky'. One afternoon
browsing the history of IBMs hardware will tell you more than
60 Minutes ever will. The prices were vulgar and almost
laughable. 

TW> You are looking in the Wrong places.. 

I don't seek out information about IBM, Microsoft, or India. I
just browse various news sources. I had access to UPI and API
over 20 years ago and could compare the yellow-dog journalism
of the USA to what was _actually_ being reported from around
the world. It is astounding how differnt the 'raw' news is from
what you are told. 

TW> As for Microsoft they haven't worked their way up high
TW> enough in the Corporate Structure to make much of an
TW> Impact. Nor would the Imbread Hiarcy in Microsoft let them
TW> I am Sure. 

If Microsoft is reluctant to deal with IBM head on I can
understand why. I don't care for their effeminate back-biting
whining lying double-dealing corporate methods of 'doing
business' myself. The short story as to how Ross Perot became
wealthy working for IBM (at one time) was by overselling
hardware to schools. This was said to be a common business
practice for IBM sales people. Ross was just a bit better at it
than most. :-) 

>
>        ,                          ,
>      o/      Charles.Angelich      \o       ,
>       __o/
>     / >          USA, MI           < \   __\__
 

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