From: "Rich" 

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   A hotfix is not a patch that is not tested.  A hotfix, as used by =
Microsoft, is a patch between service packs.  Unless you have a need you =
are strong discouraged from installing most of these.  The ones that are =
not discouraged are those on Windows Update.

   You are wrong about testing as you expect what is effectively an =
untested service pack.  I have no idea why you think anyone but you = wants this.

   First, why don't you acknowledge that you can create whatever it is =
you want yourself?  Second, why don't you acknowledge that what you are =
asking for has absolutely no value for almost all users since they =
already have an installation and are not going to and do not want to =
perform a clean install and install all of their applications.

Rich
  "Geo."  wrote in message =
news:3f0a2e18$1{at}w3.nls.net...
  I said nothing about testing, in fact the definition of a hotfix is a =
patch
  that hasn't been properly tested. All I want is for MS to handle the
  responsibility for providing a current patched iso. Make it easy for a =
user
  to get up to date instead of requiring the most current service pack =
and the
  hodgepodge of hotfixes that follow it.

  My request is simply an iso that contains all the patches so it's =
current,
  it's simple, it's easy on the users. That requirement includes only =
the
  amount of testing they do now before releasing a new hotfix.

  Geo.

  "Rich"  wrote in message news:3f08b4fa{at}w3.nls.net...
     That is not what George is asking.  George wants new ISOs every =
single
  time any hotfix is made available.  For example, George wants new ISOs =
built
  and tested for the issue at
  http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=3Dkb;en-us;819628.  It =
is not
  sufficient for him to do this himself if important to him.  When he =
made
  this same foolish claim earlier and questioned about it he never =
answered
  the question of what to do with people that want only selected =
hotfixes.
  Does every possible permutation need to be built and tested?  Does he =
do
  this himself today?

  Rich

    "Douglas Smith"  wrote in message
  news:MPG.19726326f476072d9896f2{at}news.barkto.com...
    What is the big problem in creating say a Windows 2000 SP3 ISO that =
we
    could download?  Are they available internally?

    You didn't answer my question if you have ever provided support to
    users.

     - Doug.


    In article , "Rich"  says...
    >    Because you create what you want.  What does a large number of =
users
  have to do with this?  George is whining about an install point for =
new
  installations not existing ones.  I would be very suspecious if you =
are
  performing full upgrades on all yours users just to apply any updates? =
 For
  new installations, especially if you are a large organization, I =
suspect you
  have a standard configuration with Windows,
    applications, etc and that you build and test this configuration =
before
  deploying.
    >
    > Rich
    >
    >   "Douglas Smith"  wrote in message
  news:MPG.19721fdb52549a629896f1{at}news.barkto.com...
    >   Why should we the end user have to create our own?  This costs =
my
    >   company money by taking me away from my support functions.
    >
    >   BTW, have you ever provided support for a significant number of =
users?
    >   If you had, you might change your tune about some of these =
issues.
    >
    >    - Doug.
    >
    >
    >   In article , "Rich"
 says...
    >   >    Why?  Microsoft has provided a mechanism for customers to =
create
  their own installs, with whatever changes and custom software they =
want or
  don't want.  Many folks use this.  George complains because he is too =
lazy.
    >   >
    >   > Rich
    >   >
    >   >   "Douglas Smith" 
wrote in message
  news:MPG.197205c8617efa2e9896f0{at}news.barkto.com...
    >   >   I agree MS should do this, but they aren't likely to even if =
large
    >   >   corporate customers request it.  Therefore, if falls upon =
the
  users to
    >   >   do what MS should be doing.   Besides, they think if you =
could D/L
  the
    >   >   updated ISO, people would be stealing it right and left.
    >   >
    >   >    - Doug.
    >   >
    >   >
    >   >   In article , georger{at}nls.net says...
    >   >   > "Douglas Smith"
 wrote in message
    >   >   > news:MPG.19712e90c301c70a9896ef{at}news.barkto.com...
    >   >   >
    >   >   > > To create a bootable, slip-stream service pack, see
    >   >   > > http://www.duspinnst.com/bootcd.htm.  Don't
know how you =
could
  add the
    >   >   > > barrage of patches.  Mostly, I don't at our site as it =
is near
    >   >   > > impossible for one person to test and rollout the =
plethora of
  patches to
    >   >   > > 300 workstations.
    >   >   >
    >   >   > Why should millions users have to do this millions of =
times
  instead of MS
    >   >   > doing it once each time a new patch is released?
    >   >   >
    >   >   > When I want an up to date version of Knoppix, I go to
  www.knoppix.com and
    >   >   > download the latest build. I don't have to fritz around =
with
  finding
    >   >   > patches, making slipstream cd's, none of this nonsense. I
  download an iso
    >   >   > file, click on it and burn a CD, presto I'm current. That =
is a
  really nice
    >   >   > advantage over the way it works with Windows.
    >   >   >
    >   >   > Geo.
    >   >   >
    >   >   >


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   A hotfix
is not a patch =
that is not=20
tested.  A hotfix, as used by Microsoft, is a patch between service =

packs.  Unless you have a need you are strong discouraged from =
installing=20
most of these.  The ones that are not discouraged are those on = Windows=20
Update.
 
   You are
wrong about =
testing as you=20
expect what is effectively an untested service pack.  I have no =
idea why=20
you think anyone but you wants this.
 
   First,
why don't you =
acknowledge that=20
you can create whatever it is you want yourself?  Second, why don't = you=20
acknowledge that what you are asking for has absolutely no value for = almost all=20
users since they already have an installation and are not going to and = do not=20
want to perform a clean install and install all of their=20
applications.
 
Rich

  "Geo." <georger{at}nls.net>">mailto:georger{at}nls.net">georger{at}nls.net>
wrote=20
  in message news:3f0a2e18$1{at}w3.nls.net...I=20
  said nothing about testing, in fact the definition of a hotfix is a=20
  patchthat hasn't been properly tested. All I want is for MS to =
handle=20
  theresponsibility for providing a current patched iso. Make it =
easy for a=20
  userto get up to date instead of requiring the most current =
service pack=20
  and thehodgepodge of hotfixes that follow
it.My request is =
simply=20
  an iso that contains all the patches so it's current,it's simple, =
it's=20
  easy on the users. That requirement includes only theamount of =
testing=20
  they do now before releasing a new
hotfix.Geo."Rich" =
<{at}>=20
  wrote in message news:3f08b4fa{at}w3.nls.net...&nbs=
p; =20
  That is not what George is asking.  George wants new ISOs every=20
  singletime any hotfix is made available.  For example, George =
wants=20
  new ISOs builtand tested for the issue athttp://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=3Dkb;en-us;819628"=
>.&nb" target="new">http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=3Dkb;en-us;819628.&nb=
sp;=20
  It is notsufficient for him to do this himself if important to =
him. =20
  When he madethis same foolish claim earlier and questioned about =
it he=20
  never answeredthe question of what to do with people that want =
only=20
  selected hotfixes.Does every possible permutation need to be built =
and=20
  tested?  Does he dothis himself =
today?Rich =20
  "Douglas Smith" <apteryx{at}megsinet.net>">mailto:apteryx{at}megsinet.net">apteryx{at}megsinet.net>
=
wrote in=20
  messagenews:MPG.1972632=
6f476072d9896f2{at}news.barkto.com... =20
  What is the big problem in creating say a Windows 2000 SP3 ISO that=20
  we  could download?  Are they available=20
  internally?  You didn't answer my question
if you have =
ever=20
  provided support to 
users.   -=20
  Doug.  In article <3f08870f{at}w3.nls.net>,">mailto:3f08870f{at}w3.nls.net">3f08870f{at}w3.nls.net>,
=
"Rich"=20
  <{at}> says... 
>    Because you create =
what you=20
  want.  What does a large number of usershave to do with =
this? =20
  George is whining about an install point for newinstallations not =
existing=20
  ones.  I would be very suspecious if you areperforming full =
upgrades=20
  on all yours users just to apply any updates?  Fornew =
installations,=20
  especially if you are a large organization, I suspect youhave a =
standard=20
  configuration with Windows,  applications, etc and that you =
build and=20
  test this configuration beforedeploying. 
>  =
>=20
  Rich  > 
>   "Douglas Smith" <apteryx{at}megsinet.net>">mailto:apteryx{at}megsinet.net">apteryx{at}megsinet.net>
=
wrote in=20
  messagenews:MPG.19721fd=
b52549a629896f1{at}news.barkto.com... =20
  >   Why should we the end user have to create our =
own?  This=20
  costs my  >   company money
by taking me away =
from my=20
  support functions.  > 
>   BTW, have =
you=20
  ever provided support for a significant number of users? =20
  >   If you had, you might change your tune about some of =
these=20
  issues.  > 
>    - =
Doug. =20
  >  > 
>   In article <3f084f83$1{at}w3.nls.net>,">mailto:3f084f83$1{at}w3.nls.net">3f084f83$1{at}w3.nls.net>,
=
"Rich"=20
  <{at}> says... 
>   >    =
Why? =20
  Microsoft has provided a mechanism for customers to createtheir =
own=20
  installs, with whatever changes and custom software they want =
ordon't=20
  want.  Many folks use this.  George complains because he is =
too=20
  lazy.  >  
>  >   >=20
  Rich  >  
>  >  =20
  >   "Douglas Smith" <apteryx{at}megsinet.net>">mailto:apteryx{at}megsinet.net">apteryx{at}megsinet.net>
=
wrote in=20
  messagenews:MPG.197205c=
8617efa2e9896f0{at}news.barkto.com... =20
  >   >   I agree MS
should do this, but they =
aren't=20
  likely to even if large  >  
>   =
corporate=20
  customers request it.  Therefore, if falls upon theusers =
to =20
  >   >   do what MS should be =
doing.  =20
  Besides, they think if you could D/Lthe 
>   =

  >   updated ISO, people would be stealing it right and=20
  left.  >  
>  >  =20
  >    - Doug. 
>   =
> =20
  >   > 
>   >   In =
article=20
  <3f07eb8d$1{at}w3.nls.net>,">mailto:3f07eb8d$1{at}w3.nls.net">3f07eb8d$1{at}w3.nls.net>,
georger{at}nls.net">mailto:georger{at}nls.net">georger{at}nls.net
says... =20
  >   >   >
"Douglas Smith" <apteryx{at}megsinet.net>">mailto:apteryx{at}megsinet.net">apteryx{at}megsinet.net>
=
wrote in=20
  message  >  
>   > news:MPG.19712e9=
0c301c70a9896ef{at}news.barkto.com... =20
  >   >  
>  >  =20
  >   > > To create a bootable,
slip-stream service =
pack,=20
  see  >  
>   > > http://www.duspinnst.com/boo" target="new">http://www.duspinnst.com/boo=">http://www.duspinnst.com/bootcd.htm">http://www.duspinnst.com/boo=
tcd.htm. =20
  Don't know how you couldadd the 
>  =20
  >   > > barrage of
patches.  Mostly, I don't =
at our=20
  site as it is near  >  
>   > =
>=20
  impossible for one person to test and rollout the plethora =
ofpatches=20
  to  >  
>   > > 300=20
  workstations.  >  
>   =
> =20
  >   >   > Why
should millions users have =
to do=20
  this millions of timesinstead of MS 
>  =20
  >   > doing it once each time a new patch is=20
  released?  >  
>   > =20
  >   >   > When I
want an up to date =
version of=20
  Knoppix, I go towww.knoppix.com=20">http://www.knoppix.com">www.knoppix.com=20
  and  >  
>   > download the =
latest=20
  build. I don't have to fritz around withfinding  =
>  =20
  >   > patches, making slipstream cd's,
none of this =
nonsense.=20
  Idownload an iso 
>   >   > =
file,=20
  click on it and burn a CD, presto I'm current. That is areally=20
  nice  >  
>   > advantage over =
the way=20
  it works with Windows.  >  
>  =20
  >  >  
>   > Geo. =20
  >   >  
>  >  =20
  >  
>

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