RvdW> mark lewis wrote in a message to Ramon van der Winkel:

 RvdW>> WaterGate contains a lot of correcting code for dates. Both
 RvdW>> for FidoNet and for RFC.

 ml>> pardon me but... WHY!!!!!!!???????????????

[chomp]

 ml>> help stomp out dingle berries and hand holding... DO NOT
 ml>> code around other people's bugs!!!

 RvdW> I don't agree with you. Let's differentiate between forwarding a
 RvdW> message and originating a message. I am talking about the latter
 RvdW> case, which includes gating.

gating is one thing... forwarding a message is another as is originating a
message... they are three seperate functions...

 RvdW> If I export a message from a message base and the date format is
 RvdW> wrong then I correct it, instead of sending out the same wrong date
 RvdW> format into the world and perhaps have other programs crash on it.

this is ok because not all bbs software is FTN compliant...

 RvdW> Same thing with the gateway: you really don't want all those spaces
 RvdW> added by programs like Pegasus mail. Instead, I delete those spaces
 RvdW> and give you in Fidonet a nice and clean address, or date, or
 RvdW> whatever.

this is find also... in fact it's a necessity...

 RvdW> And there is the issue of detecting a problem, complaining about it
 RvdW> and leaving it as it is. Other programs might not get updated that
 RvdW> fast and you would end up with endless complaints about a problem
 RvdW> and no fix. I think people get great service this way!

ok, tell me what you'd do with this message... this is a FTN message being
forwarded in a FTN network...

000000  3B 01 81 00 CC 07 07 00 03 00 14 00 33 00 2D 00  ;...........3.-.
000010  00 00 02 00 6B 01 6B 01 BA 02 00 00 00 00 00 00  ....k.k.........
000020  00 00 01 00 01 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 01 00 01 00  ................
000030  01 00 00 00 00 00 DA 02 8F 7F 02 00 3B 01 81 00  ...........;...
000040  6B 01 6B 01 00 00 00 00 53 61 74 20 20 33 20 41  k.k.....Sat  3 A
000050  75 67 20 39 36 20 32 30 3A 34 38 00 4D 61 72 6B  ug 96 20:48.Mark
000060  20 4C 65 77 69 73 00 4E 6F 72 6D 61 6E 20 50 65   Lewis.Norman Pe
000070  65 6C 6D 61 6E 00 48 65 79 21 00 41 52 45 41 3A  elman.Hey!.AREA:
000080  53 59 53 4F 50 31 38 0D 01 50 49 44 3A 20 50 44  SYSOP18..PID: PD
000090  51 4D 61 69 6C 20 76 32 2E 36 30 20 52 45 30 37  QMail v2.60 RE07
0000A0  32 32 0D 4D 61 72 6B 2C 0D 0D 20 20 20 20 20 49  22.Mark,..     I
0000B0  20 77 61 73 20 67 6C 61 64 20 74 6F 20 68 65 61   was glad to hea
0000C0  72 20 66 72 6F 6D 20 79 6F 75 20 63 6F 6E 63 65  r from you conce
0000D0  72 6E 69 6E 67 20 74 68 65 20 70 72 6F 62 6C 65  rning the proble
0000E0  6D 73 20 77 65 20 61 72 65 20 64 69 73 63 75 73  ms we are discus
0000F0  73 69 6E 67 2E 20 49 20 77 69 6C 6C 20 73 65 6E  sing. I will sen
000100  64 20 79 6F 75 20 77 68 61 74 20 79 6F 75 20 6E  d you what you n
000110  65 65 64 20 76 69 61 20 66 69 6C 65 20 61 74 74  eed via file att
000120  61 63 68 2E 20 3A 29 0D 0D 46 69 64 6F 4E 45 54  ach. :)..FidoNET
000130  3A 0D 4E 6F 72 6D 61 6E 20 50 65 65 6C 6D 61 6E  :.Norman Peelman
000140  0D 31 3A 33 36 33 2F 33 31 35 0D 0D 49 6E 74 65  .1:363/315..Inte
000150  72 4E 45 54 3A 0D 4E 6F 72 6D 61 6E 2E 50 65 65  rNET:.Norman.Pee
000160  6C 6D 61 6E 25 33 31 35 40 73 61 74 6C 69 6E 6B  lman%315{at}satlink
000170  2E 6F 61 75 2E 6F 72 67 0D 0D 2D 2D 2D 20 44 4C  .oau.org..--- DL
000180  47 20 50 72 6F 20 76 31 2E 31 75 34 2F 50 44 51  G Pro v1.1u4/PDQ
000190  4D 61 69 6C 20 76 32 2E 36 30 0D 20 2A 20 4F 72  Mail v2.60. * Or
0001A0  69 67 69 6E 3A 20 54 68 65 20 54 48 49 52 44 20  igin: The THIRD
0001B0  44 69 6D 65 6E 73 69 6F 6E 20 28 34 30 37 29 2D  Dimension (407)-
0001C0  33 35 39 2D 30 38 34 30 20 59 65 73 2C 20 41 4D  359-0840 Yes, AM
0001D0  49 47 41 21 20 28 31 3A 33 36 33 2F 33 31 35 29  IGA! (1:363/315)
0001E0  0D 53 45 45 4E 2D 42 59 3A 20 33 36 33 2F 31 32  .SEEN-BY: 363/12
0001F0  39 20 33 31 35 0D 01 50 41 54 48 3A 20 33 36 33  9 315..PATH: 363
000200  2F 33 31 35 20 0D 00 00 00                       /315 ....

i'll tell you exactly what the problem is... it is a screwed up
implementation of forwarding code WRT opus/seadog date formats. in
forwarded messages, the date format should be the same as it was when the
message left the originating system, correct? yes, i understand and
recognise the need to convert the dates when importing to the message base
but this should NOT (imo) be done on forwarded messages.

i've been looking for the system that's causing the above for over two
years. not real hard but still looking. our REC knows about this situation
and says that the author of his amiga based package is implementing
correction code to fix this but that is WRONG as the package that is
fubar'd should be fixed or banned from operation in fidonet.

)\/(ark