BG> At this stage, I'd be HIGHLY inclined to call a few other Couriers (say
BG> Poe, Dave D and Dave H) and see if the problem exists with those calls.

RS> Sure, its the logical test and that shows conclusively that the
RS> USR is being completely brain dead demanding a retrain like that.

BG> Whilst trying a different brand of 14k4 at YOUR end may well show
BG> conclusively that the Supra is completely fucked in that regard. Until
BG> you try that, you can't say for sure that the USR is completely to blame.

Corse you can when the Supra NEVER EVER sees that mindless demand for
a retrain straight after a successful connect, when it clearly cant be
demanding that itself, because disabling its line quality monitoring makes
no difference, and when its totally fucked behaviour for V32bis calls anyway.

Yes, its possible that ONLY the Supra triggers that behaviour in a USR
VE, and there is a tiny possibility that there is something that the Supra
is doing which does not comply strictly with the V32bis standard, but its
extremely unlikely that only the USR VE actually complys with the V32bis
standard properly and so is the only one which gets caught. AND since its
actually clearly demanding the retrain itself, AND thats a fucked thing
to do with a V32bis call anyway, even thats extremely bloody unlikely.

What we actually have is classic finger pointing. The evidence is
MUCH more heavily on the side that suggests the USR VE has a wart Bill.
Tho I agree that hasnt actually been proven totally beyond doubt yet.

BG> Given that I've never heard anybody else complain about your problem,

RS> Most cant see the retrain being indicated on the front of the modem
RS> so clearly, and clearly the Viper calls are even more fucked.

BG> Not quite sure what you mean here.  Are you saying that your Supra
BG> did the same thing with the Viper, but even more frequently ?

No, I am saying that calling a USR VE with a Viper gets an even
more fucked result than calling the USR VE with a V32bis Supra.

Tho I guess I really mean a Thunder, surely Fank hasnt actually
got a Viper, otherwise the best calls wouldnt be 19200.

BG> It's not very scientific using just one modem
BG> as a basis for a global complaint, is it?  :)

RS> Pity no one was trying to Bill.

BG> Rubbish!  That's EXACTLY what you appear to be doing, Rod.

Nope, you may have noticed that Fank has a problem calling
Pauls USR. Who ALSO only has a problem calling a USR. Sure, its
theoretically possible that both of those modems have a problem
and the USR is perfect, but its pretty fucking unlikely isnt it ?

Particularly when both Paul Markam had problems with the USR and so
did the ISP that Paul knows. Its all starting to look rather more
like the sun doesnt actually shine out of the USR VEs arse in fact.

RS> Or maybe the sun doesnt actually shine out of the USR VE's arse |-)

BG> Sorry, but I've seen too many of them in use to think otherwise now.

RS> Yep, zealots do usually respond like that. Doesnt make it true tho does it?

BG> Nope, it's not zealotry at all.

Corse it is, furiously finger pointing and desperately trying
to blame the visible imperfections on everything BUT the USR.

BG> It's actually a highly-informed and valid opinion,
BG> based on empirical data collected over several weeks,
BG> and from a couple of hundred different Couriers.

That hasnt actually shown that the USR is perfect Bill. And this recent
evidence shows very clearly indeed that its nothing like a perfect modem.

BG> Perhaps you'd rather Paul tried an Ellcon, the one
BG> brand which we refused to carry after a while due
BG> to poor reliability and performance, or similar ?

I was actually commenting on your claims that the sun shines out
of the USR VEs arse. The evidence is looking extremely dubious.

Sure, there are undoubtedly many modems even worse.

--- PQWK202