EH>>> You do. You need them to be
 EH>>> dependent on you so you can feel superior.

 BK>>  You need them to be poor and deprived so you can feel superior.

 EH> I do? Tell me how I would do that?

 Just as you do above.

 BK>>  That is the history of racism. Poor whites, like you, are told
 BK>>  you are better because those blacks are even poorer.

 EH> You don't have a clue.

 I have you nailed exactly.

 BK>>  I try to remove the barriers so no group will be any worse off
 BK>>  than any other.

 EH> No, you revel in those barriers so you can feel superior
 EH> and act like you really care. If there were no barriers,
 EH> you'd invent some so you could play the benefactor.

 You don't have a clue.

 You resort to personal attacks rather than face the issues.

 ...

 EH>>>>> Argue with Larry Elder over that. I posted the article.

 BK>>>>  You posted it, but you don't understand it.

 EH>>> I understand it far better than you ever will.

 BK>>  If you did you would realize everything he is saying still
 BK>>  exists for blacks today. Perhaps not as much, but still just as
 BK>>  real.

 EH> There will always be obstacles in the way of success. If
 EH> there were no obstacles, it would not be worth the effort.

 **************************************************************************
 The median salary for a black person with a high school diploma
 is equal that that of a white high school dropout. The median
 income for a black bachelor's degree holder equals that for a
 white high school graduate. For a black master's degree holder
 the median income is equal to that of a white bachelor's degree
 holder. It's only at the PHD level that the salaries equalize.

 The unemployment rate for blacks is twice that for whites.

 The infant mortality rate for blacks is twice that for whites.

 Above from the statistical abstract of the US.

 Aprox 23% of crimes of violence in this country are committed by
 blacks, according to the DOJ's report Criminal Victimization in
 the United States.

 Yet aprox 33% of those arrested for serious crimes are black,
 according to the FBI, and over 50% of those in prison are black.

 Yes, black people do face obstacles greater than whites face.
 **************************************************************************

 EH> You would rather have them all dependent on you and your
 EH> ilk rather than to strike out on their own and become
 EH> successful.

 You resort to personal attacks when you have no real response.

 EH>>>>> Good grief, you are dense.

 BK>>>>  You are the one who still doesn't get it. You are the one who
 BK>>>>  thinks feelings are irrelevant. You are the one who thinks
 BK>>>>  blacks are such a monolith that if one makes it they all can do
 BK>>>>  exactly the same. It don't work that way.

 EH>>> No, you treat blacks as a monolith. I pointed out those who
 EH>>> have overcome their obstacles to show that all any of them
 EH>>> need is determination and a reasonable goal.

 BK>>  Any time you start by saying, "all any of them need" you are
 BK>>  treating them as a monolith. You are guilty as charged.

 EH> No, I am treating them as individuals, ...

 Your statement above addresses black people as if they are all
 the same, moron.

 EH> If I was
 EH> treating them as a monolith, I'd saw "all they have to do,"
 EH> collectively.

 That is what you said, "... all *ANY OF THEM* need..."

 EH>>> Too often they
 EH>>> give in to peer pressure and eschew a good education so
 EH>>> they can be "different" and hip.

 BK>>  And you know this how? What makes you an expert on what *THEY*
 BK>>  do? And how often?

 EH> I live within a stones throw from a high-school and see it
 EH> everyday. The "they" I refer to is young people in general
 EH> and blacks in particular.

 So, you include whites in that failure, yet blacks are still
 less rewarded.

 EH>>> Those who apply themselves and learn what they need to
 EH>>> learn despite the pressures and make something of their
 EH>>> lives are often ostracized as sellouts by their peers.

 BK>>  And you spend your days with so many black people you are an
 BK>>  expert on this?

 EH> I live in a very diverse community.

 You live segregated in a diverse community. I doubt you know one
 black person you could discuss this with. Most certainly not a
 number of black people you could discuss this with.

 EH>>> Early in Obama's presidential campaign there was talk among
 EH>>> black leaders whether he was black enough. It wasn't until
 EH>>> he started winning primaries that they jumped on his
 EH>>> bandwagon. What kind of message does that give to young
 EH>>> blacks who want to get ahead?

 BK>>  What kind of message does it give young blacks that other blacks
 BK>>  demean his achievement, and try to trivialize the joy most
 BK>>  blacks feel at his victory?

 EH> Yes, what message did it give them?

 The message of trivialization Elders intended to give.

 BK>>  And the fact that you seem to think that blacks aren't even
 BK>>  allowed to talk about it suggests you think you are the lord of
 BK>>  black thought.

 EH> That wasn't the point at all, ...

 Then everything Elders said was meaningless, moron.

 EH> That is you trying to
 EH> put words in my mouth. A tactic you use repeatedly when you
 EH> know you have no refutation of the facts.

 Uhh... look above where you fake up motivations for me. You are
 guilty as charged.

 ...

 EH>>> It was all in the letter Larry included in his article. He
 EH>>> didn't have to talk to me, I know how to read.

 BK>>  No, you don't You do not have the slightest idea what story was
 BK>>  really told in that article.

 EH> Then tell me what the story was really about. And after
 EH> that, tell Larry Elder all about it, too. I'm sure he would
 EH> be amused at your interpretation.

 I'm sure he would be enraged that I got his line so well.

 ...

 EH>>> Anyone's failure is due to them being a failure, ...

 BK>>  Not unless you think the men who didn't make it ashore on D-day
 BK>>  were failures, becuase they failed to make it to the beach.

 EH> That's exactly the point. over 2000 men failed on that day,
 EH> but conversely several 10s of thousands made it. Should
 EH> those who succeeded instead have turned back until some
 EH> divine hand had removed all of the obstacles?

 You try to cover your misstep. You declare those who failed to
 reach the shore failures. That was the point. Not what some
 devine hand should do.

 BK>>  Not unless you think those who made the small discoveries that led
 BK>>  to almost every big discovery because they failed to find the
 BK>>  ultimate goal.

 EH> They failed the ultimate goal, but succeeded in taking
 EH> those small steps toward it.

 Yet you called them failures because they failed to achieve
 their goal.

 BK>>  Not unless you think trying till you die is failure, idiot.

 EH> Not in the least. A success is one who does not stop when
 EH> they reach an obstacle whether they die before they achieve
 EH> their ultimate goal or not.

 The explain this. These are not people who quit, these are
 people who achieved higher than the whites who are compensated
 as well. These are people who tried harder, who reached further,
 who kept at it until the arrived higher, and then were rewarded
 no better. And all on racial lines.

 **************************************************************************
 The median salary for a black person with a high school diploma
 is equal that that of a white high school dropout. The median
 income for a black bachelor's degree holder equals that for a
 white high school graduate. For a black master's degree holder
 the median income is equal to that of a white bachelor's degree
 holder. It's only at the PHD level that the salaries equalize.
 **************************************************************************

BOB KLAHN bob.klahn{at}sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... Race is an idea whose time has passed. 
 * Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5a