TR> Our biggest campaigns ever in my city were in minority or low income
 TR> areas, but your argument wouldn't work here. The citizens of these
 TR> areas begged, threatened to picket City
 RW> Really?  What if one of the people charged used it as a defence?
 RW> The only reason he was arrested was because he was a 
 RW> man in a  neighborhood. If he had been a  else> man in a  arrested.  And his lawyer had numbers to back him up.
TR> You either don't read well, have a comprehension problem, or
TR> you jump over areas that you don't like. The witnesses and
TR> citizen groups were from that minority community. Being
No I read it and even left it in the msg.  The point is
if a person can show evidence that race was a factor in
an arrest (not counting individual cases where the
criminal is IDed as white/black/green) AND he can find
the right judge he MIGHT be able to get the case
tossed.  The fact that the entire community, all the
races, supported the police action has nothing to do
with it.
Now do I think it would work every time?  Nope.  Do I
feel it should be allowed in the example you used?
Nope.  Do I think it COULD work in today's court
system?  Sure do.
TR> an opinion on the matter. The campaigns were a raging
TR> success. If we had very many citizens per block with an
TR> attitude like your's, the streets would still belong to the
TR> street thugs and dope dealers in our campaign areas.
You need to step back and take a deep breath or two.  I
have never said that sweeps don't work or that they all
are bad things.  You look at the good side and think
there is no dark side.
I think using stings and using small fish to catch big
ones are both good ideas.  Up to the point where the
police start blurring the line between a sting and
entrapment.  There has been one really high profile
case of this, the Randy Weaver/Ruby Ridge incident.
All the evidence showed that the BATF agents repeatedly
asked Weaver to cut a shotgun down to an illegal
length.  He repeatedly refused but finally relented and
did it.  And you know the rest.
I look at the police the way the founding fathers
looked at an army.  Necessary but if allowed to have
too much power dangerous.  With the number of dept.
going to secure radios and making it harder and harder
for the people they are supposed to protect to keep an
eye on them.  History has shown many times what happens
when no one watches the watchers
 TR> tactics, strategy, progress, complaints, etc. You will find programs
 TR> of this nature around the country that work when the citizens
 TR> decide to get involved.
 RW> Which would work just as well and probably even better if the police
 RW> just enforced the laws on the books and were allowed to use common
 RW> sense.  IOW, there is NO need to take the enforcement of the law
 RW> away from the cop and give it to the politicians.
TR> Rich, you exchanged the word "cop" with "politician". The
TR> partnership I've talked about which works is between
TR> citizens and cops, not citizens and politicians. I'm
ZT, which is the topic, is a political beast.  Look
back through recent history and see how much the
politicians have changed the way the police do their
jobs.  Used to be the cop on the beat was trusted to
make decisions on his own.  Now he just has to know and
follow his orders.
Domestic violence it a good example.  Used to be the
cop was allowed to use his judgement on if tossing one
or both in jail would be the best thing or not.  In a
lot of areas now he has no choice, once he gets a DV
call someone has to go to jail.  I'm not saying if one
way or the other is better for preventing DV but I will
say I tend to trust a street cops instances more then a
politicians motive.
TR> certainly glad that your massive experience and background
TR> has led you to some conclusion, even though it is the wrong
History, history, history.
TR> conclusion. If all of the citizens stuck their heads in the
TR> sand and refused to be part of the solution, law enforcement
TR> would be crippled and decent people would have to hide.
I usually don't pay any attention to personal attacks
from someone who has no idea who I am but not this
time.
Listen up here buddy, I've been around this echo for a
LONG time and if you took the time to ask around before
sticking your fat foot into your flapping mouth you
would have found out that I am a strong supporter of
law enforcement and more important law enforcement
officers.
I have stopped or prevented more crimes then probably
99% of the LACs out there.  I have put myself between
the 'decent people' and the bad guys many times.  I
have been shot at and stabbed twice while I was
crippling the law enforcement system by stepping in to
the fray.
I have more then once stopped at one of my neighbor's
house when I saw a strange vehicle in the drive when
there shouldn't have been anyone home.
I have taught people how to protect themselves so they
won't need the police to protect them.  Because there
is no way that the police CAN protect them and because
the police DO NOT have to protect them.
Now if you want to have a debate or discussion fine.
If you just want to show your ignorance by attacking me
rather than my argument then shove off and leave me the
HEL! alone.
                      Remember:  Freedom isn't Free!
--- timEd-B11
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