-> -> of control.  If I raised my dogs the way some people
-> -> raise their kids I'd be knee deep in doggie poo and
-> -> covered with bites.  Then again if people raised their
-> -> kids like I train my dogs (and raise my kids) the world
-> -> would be a much better place.  IMNSHO of course ;).
->
-> DeB> It may be even as you say, sir.  Your children would be
-> DeB> well-disciplined--and likely the methods used would fester
-> DeB> subconsciously and reveal itself as so much inner resentment
->
-> Nope.
DeB> You must be using some method that is reassuring to the
DeB> offspring if, as you suggest, there is no negative response
DeB> in the children at all. 
They get a lot more reassurance then punishment and
after they are punished they are told why they were
punished and how to avoid it in the future.  Even a
three y.o. can understand cause and effect. He hits his
sister and he has to stand in the corner.  He doesn't
hit her and he doesn't stand in the corner.
Critters are the same way.  If a horse gets whacked on
the nose when he tries to bite it doesn't take him long
to realize that he doesn't get whacked if he doesn't
bite.
-> DeB> later on. Discipline is wonderful for both children and
-> DeB> pets...and so is an abundance of overt love and affection.
-> DeB> Far too often, the two are not thought mixable.
-> Which is the same way you have to treat animals.  You
-> can beat kids or animals in to submission and they will
-> do what you want.  But only when you are there, when
-> you aren't they revert back.
DeB> You are saying that you enrich discipline with overt love
DeB> and affection then?  I do not want to presume.
I'm saying you reward good behavior and punish bad.
You can FORCE some people and animals to be good but in
most cases it just makes them rebellious.
A dog that has been made to mind by being beaten
usually winds up useless.  It is so afraid of making a
mistake that it doesn't do anything.
-> He finally self destructed.  It hit an overpass support
-> doing over 100 mph.  His family called it an accident
-> but I have always wondered if it was suicide.  [snip]
DeB> This is tragic; how old was the fellow at the time of death?
He was a senior in HS so 17 or 18.
                      Remember:  Freedom isn't Free!
--- timEd-B11
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