And so it came to pass, on 24-07-96 12:22,
   that Bonnie Goodwin spake unto Greg Cobb:
 BG>  You, Matt, and a few others are concerned with quality in addition
 BG> to LOUDNESS, but most discussion is still concerned with unhealthy
 BG> sound levels, at "who cares" distortion levels. 
180dB at only 30% THD!! Woohoo!
 BG> Competition sound levels seem to be more important than sound
 BG> stage, cleanliness, quality of sound, etc. 
But Bonnie, that's exactly the point I tried to make to Tom way back at the 
start of this -- the "professional" competitions (IASCA, USAC, the ones with 
the big money behind them) place a very small value on loudness.  SPL counts 
for probably 5% of one's total score, and in a given power class, there's 
probably no more than 40% difference between scores in that category.  In 
short, it's not very likely that anyone's going to win or lose an IASCA 
trophy based on his SPL scores.
 BG> I stress test major sound systems at far lower levels than these
 BG> monster cars, where fewer components and amps serve hundreds of
 BG> people.
Aye, but it's still hard to compare the two, as they're designed for 
radically different environments.  Particularly, the amps are designed and 
rated quite differently because of the different power sources.  Even small 
PA amps (for reinforcement systems, not little "lounge lizard" setups) start 
at around 400W/ch at 8 ohms, whereas a car amp that puts 400W/ch into 4 ohms 
would be a behemoth and limited only to the upper end of high-end systems.
 BG>  I'm not impressed with the majority of "excellent" car sound
 BG> systems at all (except Matt's system which did much for a small
 BG> investment and good choices in components, which I have heard) and
 BG> still believe that almost any studio monitor in a fairly decent
 BG> acoustical environment will do much better.
Ahh, that's the whole challenge with car audio (for me, at least)... GETTING 
a decent sound in such a bizarre environment.  Heck, getting decent sound in 
an acoustically-designed cathedral is no fun at all. :-)
 BG>  That may be my opinion, but I'll stand by it. Any peak over about
 BG> 130dB is a total waste for any real world need. 
But these types of competitions, be they car audio, car racing, etc., are not 
ABOUT real world "needs."
 BG> 162dB is the record?? There's a research facility that is designed
 BG> to destroy materials in the desert of Arizona that I think puts out
 BG> 174dB. 
But can they do it in an enclosed space, limited to a 12VDC power source??? 
:-)
 BG> How many dB does it take for a car to shake itself apart? Does
 BG> anyone REALLY care? Sounds like typical macho BS to me like having
 BG> 2000 horsepower out of a VW bug. I'm not impressed in the
 BG> slightest. I'm suprised that anyone with any degree of intelligence
 BG> is.
What's impressive, to me at least, is the ABILITY to do such a thing.  Any 
shmoe can dump a pile of speakers and a sh*tload of amps together and make it 
loud.  It takes some very careful design and construction to do the same in 
such a limited space.  The loudness itself is not the point of such an 
endeavor, as far as I'm concerned -- the technology and craftsmanship to pull 
it off is.
As an engineer, Bonnie, you know how difficult it is to reproduce, on 
playback, the "live" environment.  Whether making a recording of an 
orchestra, or assembling a mix from numerous multitracked instruments, giving 
things a "realistic" position in space upon playback requires significant 
skill and, in some cases, sonic trickery.  
Many people, like my wife, would argue that there's no real-world "need" for 
this.  She, for the most part, couldn't tell the difference between an oboe 
and a violin anyway, so whether or not they appear in the proper place in the 
sound stage doesn't impress her either.  She might  consider the care taken 
to place them there to be "typical macho BS" as well.  You and I don't.
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Q: Why don't blind people skydive?
A: It scares the heck outta their dogs!
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