==> A hush fell over the room when Jane Kelley said to Harriet Levy <== 
 JK> If I had to worry about folks liking me or what I said, I would be
 JK> very much ineffective as a counselor.
Just want to pass on two quotes from my 1st sponsor:
"Alcohol counselors are people who are being paid for what they
should be giving away for free..."
"Alcohol counselors are people who are too afraid to go out an
get real jobs...."
Guess that pretty much sums up my opinion of alcohol counselors.
As for treatment centers, I've never seen statistic better than 1
in 30 making it to a year sober....so I wonder about their efficacy
too.
It's been pretty much widely accepted that alcoholics get sober when
they reach their individual bottom..whatever that bottom is.  For some,
they have to be homeless, for others, putting a cashmere sweater in
the dryer, when drunk, is enough (believe it or not, I have heard this
in a meeting).  Nevertheless, I *had* all the information about 
alcoholism in my posession for *years* before it finally hit me that
they were talking about me.  
I really don't want to debate this with you any more, Jane.  I know
you believe strongly in the work that you're doing.  Go for it.  Just,
please, stop trying to convert the world to your belief system.
Harriet
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