Salutatio Bob!
24-Apr-98, Bob Sewell wrote to Richard Meic
          Subject: ATHEISM v FIDEISM
 BS> Caught on tape by an undercover CIA agent were Richard Meic's
 BS> words:
 FR>> By any definition, everyone is born not believing in gods and
 FR>> goddesses. Ergo, everyone is born an atheist.
 >>> I'll have to stand with Bob on this one.  Atheism is not
 >>> agnostism. Atheism is the "non-acceptance" of any deity(s)
 >>> existance.  Agnostism is simply the lack of knowledge of such.
 RM>> FR>> No, atheism is the lack of deity beliefs.  Everyone is born
 RM>> an FR>> atheist.
 RM>> I am sorry, Bob but I have to take back what I said.  It seems
 RM>> that both Rice and I were wrong about this.  Agnostics believe
 RM>> that god(s) make no difference here in our lives and also that
 RM>> there is no chance of understanding any of it.  Atheists, after
 RM>> gaining some knowledge of religion/theism simply choose not to
 RM>> believe any of it.  So, I conclude that we are all born as
 RM>> neither atheist, theist or agnostic.
 BS> In a strict semantic sense, its roots mean a- (without) gnosis
 BS> (knowledge).  A similar greek word is agnoia, which means
 BS> ignorance. So, literally, babies are born ignorant, in agnoia,
 BS> without knowledge, tabla rasa.  Later in life they might, with
 BS> knowledge, come to the conclusion that we can have no knowledge of
 BS> ultimate realities such as God or the soul, and therefore would
 BS> fall under your description.  But I stick with my semantic
 BS> interpretation.  Without knowledge is the correct definition of
 BS> agnosticism to describe our state at birth.
I am using dictionary meanings of the words, and IMO they are more acurate
then taking the participles of the latin origins in a strict sense.
 BS>> Isn't it funny to see Fredric rant and rave about fundies, yet
 BS>> refuse to recognize the one in his mirror?
 RM>> I do not know him well enough to conclude either way.
 BS> I admire your even-handed, steady patience and refusal to jump to
 BS> conclusions.  But I feel that the myriad of Frederic's postings
 BS> here and what I've seen on Holyjoke support my opinion.  With
 BS> time, perhaps you will agree.
Very well.
 RM>> Sorry, but I give each new arrival the same chance to prove they
 RM>> are honorable.
 BS> Again, I admire your fair approach.  If I seem hasty in my
 BS> judgements, it must be considered that I've seen his work
 BS> elsewhere, in the Holyjoke echo and on his Skeptic Tank web site.
 BS> I try to give people the benefit of the doubt as well, because I
 BS> hate prejudice.  But this isn't prejudice, it's post-judicial, if
 BS> that's a word...  ;^)
Understood.
 Dicere...
 email address (vrmeic@nucleus.com)
Richard Meic
--- Terminate 5.00/Pro 
---------------