On 2/07/2016 6:21 AM, Alan Ianson -> David Drummond wrote:

 AI>>> So you have decided that that we should/can not have a sysop only are
 AI>>> communicate with each other?

 DD>> Why would sysops need a special area to chat with each other? Are we
 DD>> elitist snobs?

 AI> Most fidonet echoes are open to whoever would like to participate.
FN_SYSOP
 AI> and FIDO_SYSOP are sysop only areas. Do you have any more questions?

Pretty much the same question. You haven't explained why we sysops need a chat
area that only we can access.

 AI>>> How very inconsiderate and dishonourable of you, but thanks for the
 AI>>> honesty.

 DD>> Whose definition of honour? Fidonet is about communication. In my
 DD>> opinion it is dishonourable to stifel that communication.

 AI> Who is stifling communication? Echoes are what we do best in fidonet and
if
 AI> you'd like to communicate with anyone by all means feel free to do so in
the
 AI> area of your choice, there are many to choose from.

You, and others, are trying to limit communication in a couple of echoes at
least - why is that?

 AI> It seems to me that you are stifling communication between sysops in the
 AI> sysop echoes.

I'm not stifling anything/one - I'm not the one recommending that certain
persons are excluded from certain echoes.

 AI> They have always been meant for sysops to communicate between themselves.

Why is that? Are they elitist snobs? What do they have to chat about that "the
masses" shouldn't know about?

 AI>>> It is not surprising that the FD beta team has a private area to disc
the
 AI>>> development of FD, or that the FTSC members have a private area to di
 AI>>> FTSC matters. There are many other examples of such echoes as well.

 DD>> But no chat echoes?

 AI> You really should have a look at the echolist one day, or even a plain
ascii
 AI> list of available echoes.

Available from where? What's the point of seeing an enormous list of dead
echoes?

 DD>> Why? They're just chat echoes.

 AI> No they are not just chat echoes. They are sysop only echoes.

What is special about sysop chat?

 DD>> You do have netmail access do you not?

 AI> I'm almost certain that you understand the difference between echomail and
 AI> netmail, don't you David?

Yes - echomail is open to all to read/reply, netmail is for more private
communications.

 DD>> You have the freedom to communicate in netmail,

 AI> Of course I use netmail when that is appropriate.

Seems that some of the things you want to talk about in FN_SYSOP might be
better moved to netmail, if they're that secret.

 DD>> just as Lee  (and others) have the freedom to read chat echoes.

 AI> Of course Lee has the freedom to read and write in the echoes and I'm not
 AI> suggesting that should not be. He should not have access to the sysop
 AI> echoes.

That is your opinion. It is not one held by all.

 AI> That is not an infringement on his (or your) rights.

There are no rights, just privileges granted by the regime of the day. On my
system I (being the lord an master there-on) grant the read privilege to all in
all echoes. I am a fan of free and open communication.

 AI> It is a privilege to participate in the sysop echoes, but it is for
sysops.

And I recognise that anyone who can operate a system to connect to and read
mail from mine is a sop and can have that privilege. I am not elitist.

-- 

Regards
David

E&OE

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