Hi Bob,
-> HW>    MB overstates his case, yes.  But trust produces evidence,
-> and evidence presupposes trust.
BS>   How does trust produce evidence?  Trust is usually built upon
-> evidence of something being trustworthy.
   If you trust someone, there is a reasonable chance they will prove
trustworthy.  Hence my statement 'trust produces evidence' [on which to
base trust]
   Further, consider what you have called 'evidence of something
[someone?--HW] being trustworthy.'  I submit that is a mistaken
view.  Take the case of your banker who {apparently} safeguards
your funds.  Would that be evidence.  No, I submit, for  lacking
trust, you might well presume he--like any con artist-- is merely
setting you up by acting honest/trustworthy.
-> HW> Faith as 'belief in'  {holding beliefs in X}  is a red
-> herring {A greek deviation, a cognitive formulation  of
-> religion}.
BS>   I'm not sure I agree, but then maybe I'm misunderstanding your
-> statement.
   What I was trying to say was that  'belief' in God, in Biblical
terms is not quite what it would seem.  We now use belief as
involving willingness to affirm propositions.
"I believe (in) quantum theoretic explanations of this
phenomenon."
   To the Biblical terms, the modern analogy is  when you say
"I believe in my friend, X"  I.e.,  you trust them.
Hence, I submit, the core of Jewish or Christian religion
has nothing much to do with the willingness to
endorse creedal statements or even dogmatic statements
like "God exists" .  This last is simply an affirmation alien to the
Jewish prophets, including Jesus.
   Maybe that is clearer.
-> HW>    3) If you pledge your love to X, you are obliged to consider
-> > her worthy of trust;  that is required.  This "faith"  might
-> >fly in the face of alleged evidence:  Someone says,  "I saw here
-> >with X"  your {required} reply as one committed to loving  her,
-> >"I'm sure it was innocent."
BS>   Yeah, but that seems to put the cart before the proverbial horse.
-> Love and trust are, or should be, built upon evidence of the previous
-> trustworthiness of the object of our love.
   As I argued above, you cannot, in a real sense, 'collect' such
evidence, unless there is at least a willingness to trust.  If you
are able to trust, you will 'see' such evidence.  Lacking that,
you will see only  "She's acting straight, I wonder what she's up to."
   Hal.
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