Hi Wes!
 WJ> Correcting myself:  Educated students are the product.
 WJ>                     Uneducated students are the raw material.
Now you're closer.  I think Dr. Deming just wanted the _system_ to 
be pondered a bit deeper in toto.
 WJ> Education is more a refining process than a manufacturing
 WJ> proposition.
 WJ>  
 WJ> When you can package up and send me 2 lbs of education then I
 WJ> guess it will be a product.  Or better yet, give me exactly $5
 WJ> worth.
Institutions of higher learning sell it by the hour routinely.
$5.00 worth??  ...Sheila'd *kill* me.  
 WJ>  FT  WJ> While taxpayers may be asleep from time to time....they
 WJ>  FT  WJ> will wake up.
 WJ>  FT
 WJ>  FT Sounds like you're a republican.
 WJ> I gave the republican party the wind off my tail sometime back!
Great!  :)  Ron thought I was using it as a slur apparently.
I wasn't.  It was just an observation.
 WJ> Define "honest wage."
Not a whole bunch.  Just enough to support families in reasonable comfort.
...this has been twisted alot and that should be corrected.  Expecting 
the American workforce to be able to survive when the govt. is paying 
companies to move offshore is nothing short of treasonous though.
 WJ> There's a lot more dignity in grabbing a shovel and building a park
 WJ> than in having politicians extort money to pay some
 WJ> contractor to do the work at an inflated price, while paying
 WJ> inept workers more than they're worth by government edict.  If
 WJ> you think about it many of our biggest corporations do a lot of
 WJ> government contracting.
I'll quote the contractor who did the "record rebuild" of the L.A. 
freeways after the earthquakes though: (to the effect that) "Anyone who 
thinks Prevailing Wage isn't needed doesn't understand construction."
...Prev. Wage assures top quality people and avoidance of costly mistakes.
(We're talking megabucks in possible mistakes here!)  I have the strangest 
feeling that business educators (for instance) haven't gotten the slightest 
exposure to the actual realities here.  A deficiency in educator training 
-- concern about a one-sided exposure -- is my main concern.  *That* is 
not only a viable topic but damned well needed.  ...notice the rise in 
militias and incidences of bombings?  ...I'm affraid that's largely 
related to inequities in employment, etc. ...I'm really concerned here.
 WJ> It was tough deciding how to respond to your message.  You
 WJ> use all the catch phrases and key words so well I thought
 WJ> I might be responding to a robot programmed by the OTHER
 WJ> major party.  In the end I decided it was worth a chance
 WJ> to respond seriously.
I'm glad you did.  Thanks.  ...OTHER party?  ...ok, you a lib, me a demo.
..yep.  I do belong to the OTHER major party.  
 WJ> BTW, because you seem interested in categorizing, in the
 WJ> >tiny political test<  I fall in the upper right of the
 WJ> libertarian quadrant. ;-)  I'm also an active union member.
...you radical!!!  
 WJ> I don't believe extorting more money from anyone for the
 WJ> government to handle will do anything other than consolidate
 WJ> power in the government.  Eventually they will be telling
 WJ> you where and when a park or library might be built and where
 WJ> and when you get that much needed heart bypass operation.
 WJ> Your short term survival will not enter into the decision
 WJ> nor will the real needs of the community.  That's after
 WJ> they've handled the money and burned up some 60% to 90%
 WJ> of it in the paper shuffling bureaucracy.  Your dream sounds
 WJ> more like a nightmare to me.
 WJ>  
 WJ> Best,  wes
I think we share some fairly similar concerns actually.
I'd love to discuss them in relation to educator training which should 
be on topic.  ...I empathise with Sheila's "job" and don't want to 
get off on a labor harrangue though.
I have a friend who graduated from CSUS Ed program who learned very 
little from a certain professor. ...I saw the guy at a Joint Trades Council
meeting once representing CSUS.  ...the guy was totally pushing an agenda 
of political indoctrination toward communism.  ...always on a harrangue 
about the supressed natives down in South America.  The material that was 
supposed to be covered was not.  This guy used his paid time (white collar 
time theft actually) to push his agenda -- my friend felt cheated.
Yeah, sure I'm concerned.    Thanks for the reply.    Best,  -frank:)
--- Maximus 2.01wb
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