Salutatio Fredric!
11-Apr-98, Fredric Rice wrote to Richard Meic
          Subject: In Prison
 FR>> It indicates the fact that theism doesn't work; that atheism is
 FR>> superior to theism in that it imparts a superior ethic -- or a
 FR>> superior intelligence needed to escsape capture.  }:-}
 rm>> Superior?  I don't know,... I am not ready to accept any
 rm>> superiority over a theist (or fellow human).
 FR> We're not talking about human superiority, though.  We're talking
 FR> about superior systems of ethics and morality; superior systems of
 FR> living one's life and attempting to be a civilized participating
 FR> citizen.
You made this statement "or a superior intelligence needed to escsape
capture.  }:-}".  Does this not sound like you view atheist
*people/individuals* as superior to theist *people/individuals*?
 FR> Nazi Germany's fascist Totalitarianism was fought against by the
 FR> Allies, not the Germans, Italians, and Japanese, per se.  It was
 FR> fought against because those ideologies are destructive and
 FR> Democracy and self-rule are superior ideologies.
POINT 1:
I disagree about the superiority of democracy.  I view true socialism as
superior by far.
 FR> I won't attempt to defend my comments above about what it
 FR> "indicates." I shouldn't have typed much of that, in retrospect.
This seems to be so.  >;)
 FR> I will defend the comment that it indicates that theism doesn't
 FR> work, however.  I stick by that statement because the history of
 FR> theism evidences the fact quite well, I think.
POINT 2:
I stated before and will again that religion/theism has kept our species
civilized.
 rm>> Hey, ever consider that maybe atheists declare a religion in
 rm>> order to lighten their sentences sometime down the road?
 FR> Absolutely.  O. J. Simpson's defense team planted a version of the
 FR> Christian mythologies on his coffee table before his fireplace the
 FR> day before his jury was scheduled to take a walk through the
 FR> house.  It is quite obvious that Christians are granted special
 FR> dispensations which are not granted to the rest of the populace
 FR> and it's also obvious that many people will jump onto Christianity
 FR> in the hopes of being given those special dispensations.
POINT 3:
And this doubt alone destroys your data that supports the conclusion
that atheism is morally superior to theism.
 FR> It's a weak area:  How can I tell what percentage of Christians
 FR> adopted their occultism as a matter of conveinience?  There is no
 FR> way to tell yet, in retrospect, one method of making a ballpark
 FR> estimate is to see what percentage of Jews, Muslims, Quakers et
 FR> al. "switch" to Christianity for matter of conveinience.  One
 FR> would expect that atheists, holding honesty in high regard --
 FR> would exhibit at best the same percentage of such behavior.
 FR> Unfortunately, such information about "conversions" isn't
 FR> available.
POINT 3 REPHRASED:
So, you are back to square one.  Your data you have provided is
insufficient to support your conclusion that atheism is superior to
theism.
 rm>> I mean if the panel of judges hears that such and such a prisoner
 rm>> is an atheist (and considering how most theists feel that
 rm>> atheists cannot be moral/ethical without God), what do you think
 rm>> that prisoner's chances are of getting an early parole? 
 FR> A snowball's chance in Valhalla.  }:-}
Exactly!  >;D
 FR> In fact in a society where
 FR> the populace is comprised mainly of Christians, we end up with a
 FR> jury consisting of mainly Christians.  And since, as you pointed
 FR> out, there is an insane and utterly unfounded belief that atheists
 FR> are less moral and ethical than theists, I can agree entirely that
 FR> it would make sense for an atheist to claim to be a theist.
Which supports "POINT 3".
 FR> An atheist, however, would be best served to claim to be a Quaker
 FR> -- or Mormon if she's on trial in Utah.
                         
No change to "POINT 3".
 rm>> Is it also possible that the data could be taken from personal
 rm>> records of the prisoners, (ie. I was baptized as Roman Catholic,
 rm>> though I denounce that religion)?  Someone can be Jewish without
 rm>> practicing Judaism.
 FR> Well, when you get to prison, be sure to let them know you stood
 FR> under the hair dryer and reversed the baptism ritual.  }:-}
                       
I already have,... for myself.
 FR> I got some mail from Rabbis and from followers of Lord Krishna, by
 FR> the way.
                              
Meaning?
 Dicere...
 email address (vrmeic@nucleus.com)
Richard Meic
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