@@> "Responsibility and Political Philosophies"
 
  Caught your concise critique on irresponsible "Libertarianism"
  over on the "Politics Echo" and thought it appropriate to repeat
  and explore some of it on PHIL. You said a great deal in some few
  rational words without giving up your appreciation or support for
  the Libertarianist concept of nationhood. This willingness,  *UNLIKE*
  Plato, to examine and weigh into the specific realities of the
  circumstance/times, seems more a "relativist" (even Sophist?) view.
  I'm still in the process of getting national responsibilities
  sorted out from free minded Libertarian notions on "who should
  do what" (a lot of things have to be done in running a nation!).
 
 @@> Intercept between Day Brown and Patrick Sullivan
 @@> on Libertarian Platform [responsibleness]
 
 PS> * We don't want silly little tax cuts -- or to redistribute the burden
 PS> of big government by switching to a flat tax or sales tax. We want to
 PS> reduce government so far that we can repeal the income tax completely
 PS> and replace it with nothing.
 
 DB> 28% of the federal tax burden is servicing the national debt; the
 DB> choice is either to repudiate the debt, or have taxes support it.
 DB> Which do you support Patrick? How cum Harry ignores this?  As bad
 DB> as social security is, there is another third of federal taxes to
 DB> support the current retirees.  What does Harry propose to do with
 DB> these folks *already* on the federal dole? Another quarter of the
 DB> federal expenditure is for the Pentagon, and most of that is not,
 DB> despite all this hype, for billion dollar bombers and gold plated
 DB> toilet seats, but spent on *payroll* and *veterans benefits*.
 
 PS> * We don't want to "allow" Americans to invest a small portion of
 PS> their Social Security taxes on their own. We want to get Social
 PS> Security completely away from the politicians, so that Americans
 PS> can use all of their own money in whatever way they want.
 
 DB> I love the idea, the devil is in the details.  Now, you and I are
 DB> smart, and still with functioning faculties.  There are, however,
 DB> a large number of elderly who are greedy fools, and would soon be
 DB> taken by some scam artist for every nickel.  Now: do you want for
 DB> us to shoot them, or put them on welfare? -which, I beleive, they
 DB> already are- local or federal, it is still an entitlement.
 
 DB> I spoze you could suggest that the insurance and banking industry
 DB> be in charge of the so-called 'trust fund', but we have seen them
 DB> both go belly up after being raided by top management, and again,
 DB> we see, the taxpayer has to pick up the tab.  So, inasmuch as the
 DB> taxpayer has to guarantee the income anyway, it seems reasonable,
 DB> if the taxpayer only had to guarantee a bare minimum, to then let
 DB> the workers invest the rest in any way they see fit.
 
 PS> * We don't want to solve the education crisis by giving government
 PS> the power to dispense voucher money according to the politicians'
 PS> standards. We want to get the government completely out of education
 PS> and repeal the income tax, so that parents have the power and the
 PS> resources to make their own choices.
 
 DB> And if the parents are dopers, who choose not to pay for the kid,
 DB> or his education? Sue the parents? they're addicts, and are broke
 DB> already.  Would you support orphanages for doper kids?  All these
 DB> raps about parental rights assumes they are all responsible; they
 DB> aren't.  So, Patrick: how do you respect my right, as responsible
 DB> in my parenting, to do as I want, while at the same time, protect
 DB> the rights of kids who do not have responsible parenting? Oh- who
 DB> is it that *decides* if I am acting responsibly?
 
 PS> Over time it will become more and more obvious that Libertarians are
 PS> the only people offering to make life much better for the three
 PS> quarters of the American people who already want government to become
 PS> much smaller.
 
 DB> It is obvious that the LP has raised some good questions.  But I,
 DB> for one, would like some good answers.  Granted, that the GOP and
 DB> the Dumbocrats have screwed things up royally; we still need some
 DB> good answers, and Harry ain't doing all that well.
 
 DB> Reading his comments here and elsewhere, I detect pandering to an
 DB> instinctive American dislike of government; but such pandering is
 DB> not going to cut it in a forum like this where these damn details
 DB> can be put forward and the debating technique of ignoring them is
 DB> just all to obvious.  I wish he, and the LP, could do better.
 
     Since you would vote LP, My inquiry would be "what is the
     Libertarian philosophy" that invites you to walk between
     state responsibilities and personal freedom; especially
     in light of your above mentioned issues?
 
                         @@ ... Dave
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