HW> I'm afraid these brush stokes are too broad for my taste, Frank.
 HW> Obviously Greek and Jews have different approaches. What you seem to do
 HW> above, though, is compare Greek political developments to Jewish
 HW> religious developments.  Apples and oranges. If you were to look at just
 HW> the politics, or just the religions of the two groups, IMHO the
 HW> comparison would be more enlightening.  It is further worth noting that
 HW> time period must be considered.  In ancient times you are going to find
 HW> monarchies and oligarchies, whether you look at Greeks, Hebrews,
 HW> Egyptians of Chinese.
   If you were to look at "just the politics" or "just the religion" of 
reeks
and Hebrews it would overlaying these separate experiences of order with
modern terminology which would be a distortion.  It would be foolish for me 
o
argue that the two major cultural antecedents in the western world did not
have much in the way of common experience.  First of all, perhaps we should
set the period circa 500 B.C. (Jaspers' "axis time" - which has some 
roblems)
as a kind of common point so we will know we're discussing the same thing.  
y
that time the Greeks with their pantheon of gods dwelling on a rather mild
form of an omphalos (Mount Olympus) and considered separate from human beings
in that they require special foods, etc. can be more adequately compared to
the already transacted Hebrew self-experience of a God who has become
universal by reason of the Mosaic-Prophetic (who formed who cannot be
determined) dynamic and capable even of following "his people" into exile 
rom
where they "cannot sing the songs of Israel in a strange land" and yearn for
their omphalus (Jerusalem) and the rebuilding of the temple.   Already we 
ave
a shaking out of this experience into one faction which tends to withdraw 
nto
the shell of Judaism with the "Word" as the concrete "book" (myth of its
finding in the temple under Josiah) and another faction moving in the
directions (also a potentiality of the Mosaic experience) of opening into
universality as it, in fact, did in the Christian experience of order as it
differentiated and came into its place in the western world via the vision of
Augustine of Hippo.
  But if the Hebrews form the "old testament of Christianity" so do the 
reeks
deserve such a place although it is scarcely recognized by moderns.  The
experience of revelation, however, was decidedly different in the two
cultures.  In the Hebrew, the formation of strong tendencies toward
apocalyptic as one finds illustrated in books like Daniel and Revelation and
in certain parts of the Gospels is all too evident (even though we have the
Hellenistic age _Ecclesiastes_ also in the Hebrew late writings) but as I've
already pointed out, a Plato could have an experience of the divine-human
tension and (with antecedents) as a "revelation" of the "idea" WITHOUT
allowing it to degenerate into an eschatological extravaganza.  Hal, you 
on[t
find the Hebrews giving prescriptions for the "best forms" of political order
(for a people under God that would be rather strange) 
   To be sure, both of these cultures soon find themselves under the constant
hammering of the ecumenic empires from the Assyrian through the Persian and
Alexandrine and finally the Roman which enveloped both and their response to
this was, again, decidedly different although both attempted to preserve its
ancient cultures.  The Greeks became the "educators of Rome" while the 
ebrews
ended up with a missionary effort for which the Alexandrine cultural
dispersion and unity of language and much else was largely responsible.  This
missionary effort was spearheaded by Paul in the West and Mani in the East.
One modern writer, Feuer, has begun his study of modern ideology by pointing
out that it has its origin in the Mosaic story.  I am not certain of this
although I think he has a point.  But, even though by the time of Cicero
philosophy had degenerated in some respects into "religion, still, the Greek
heritage to the western world surely was the "contribution" of the origins of
philosophy - even being brought in the "Middle Ages" into the service of the
Christian scholastics for Aristotelian logic to furnish "proofs" for the God
in which they already believed.  
 HW> I'm afraid these brush stokes are too broad for my taste, Frank.
 HW> Obviously Greek and Jews have different approaches. What you seem to do
 HW> above, though, is compare Greek political developments to Jewish
 HW> religious developments.  Apples and oranges. If you were to look at just
   I hope I have clarified my position so that the above no longer offers a
barrier to understanding of my major points.
Sincerely, 
                                     Frank
                                                                              
                                                       
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