-> INTL 0:2808/1 0:2808/1
-> PID: TriDog 10.0
-> MS> CB> Hmmmmm, since he stated the student is a customer
-> MS>
-> MS>     The _student_ is not the "customer" in the K-12 industry, since
-> MS> neither pays the bills nor (for the vast majority of students) choos
-> MS> school he goes to.
-> 
-> In basic "Quality" terminology, you have customers and suppliers - in
-> the K-12 environment the students *are* indeed customers and the
-> teachers (in the case of classroom instruction) are the suppliers.
-> Sometimes you can take the economic definition of customer/supplier
-> relationship too literally.  The students have certain expectations of
-> the product/service they are to receive just as the teacher has certain
-> expectations of the product/service they are to provide.  Ideally there
-> should be alignment between those expections given the constraints of
-> the system.  Working towards alignment cannot necessarily be done in a
-> vacuum, that is, teachers and students must also consider the needs and
-> capabilities of other customers and suppliers involved in the process
-> (parents, administrators, school board, etc.)
-> 
-> The process of aligning customer needs (note that is "needs" not
-> "wants") with supplier capabilities is a critical step in the process
-> and theoretically (at least) should totally involve both the customer
-> and supplier.  A customer that understands the supplier's limitations
-> and capabilities in meeting their needs is going to understand the
-> process better and enjoy a greater opportunity of having their needs
-> satisfied.  Likewise a supplier that understands what their customer's
-> needs are will be in a better position to deliver a "quality" product
-> -- actually I prefer to phrase it "they'll be able to do the right
-> thing, the right way, the first time around" -- in the case of K-12
-> instruction, that right thing, right way, first time around equates to
-> providing solid instruction that meets an agreed upon standard.
-> 
-> Practically speaking we don't sit down with our students and ask them
-> what they would like us to teach them, and opponents to this model
-> would jump on that in a heartbeat to say "it doesn't work because we
-> can't do that".
-> 
-> Determining customer needs is a relatively simple process of
-> brainstorming...it's certainly not anything new or different.
-> 
-> MS> happy.  It's the adults, particularly the parents, whose loyalty to
-> MS> system you cannot afford to lose...not satisfying the kids!
-> 
-> Certainly the parents are also a "customer" in the education process as
-> well, but I have to take exception to your comment about "not
-> satisfying the kids", if (as a professor) I don't meet various needs of
-> my students (ie: teach them something), then I'm not fulfilling my role
-> as a supplier and therefore am not contributing towards the attainment
-> of my organizations goals, mission or vision.  Again, meeting the
-> students needs does not equate to making them happy and giving them
-> everything they want.
-> 
-> My 2* worth.
-> 
-> Dale
-> 
-> --- TriDog 10.0
Hey Dale,
Sorry to barge in on you and Matt regarding parents as customers.  To a
certain extent I can agree with you and what you are saying about
pleasing and satisfying "customers".  However, when it comes to the
younger student variety that Matt and I work with (i.e.age 13 under)
there is no pleasing the customer.  I say this in not an argumentative
way to those parents who are actively interested in the education of
their child.  The general parent public in our state is having a
difficult time facing true facts about their child's learning processes
as it is, without having to deal with deciding how to shop for a school
for their child.  The educational ability for parents is there, but too
many parents are busy holding down jobs, taking care of their parents
and meeting the demands of too short a day.  Some do take advantage of
courses offered at our community schools and sit in on school board
meetings, but feel defeated just listening to how much education change
has taken place since "they" were in school.  
This just goes to say they accept placement of children after too brief
explanations, apathetically or financially accept the control of where
their child goes to school and then are furious when their child has
discipline or educational problems in school.  They are justified in
some of this anger, but lack trust in judgement from experts in the
system.  Maybe this is something that the school system needs to
address.MEANING - be patient with explanations, contact the parents more
frequently, home visits.  
But to have to please students who can barely make decisions between
what is right and what is wrong is truely almost an impossibility.
You are listening to a former parent who suffered, got angry, and was
challenged by a college professor and a principal who told me if I
didn't like the system - get in and do something about it!  I did.
Going back to college 14 years later for another degree.  This time in
el education.  There are many times in my minuscule wisdom that I have
seen "the light".  Sometimes to reach parents seems extremely difficult.
We are a stubborn lot when it comes to our children.  We so love them 
dearly.  But, an honest parent also is able to make good choices for
their children.  These choices are not only getting the best possible
education, but being the best possible citizen - honest, upright, and
truly concerned for others.
To continue - (I'm not out of breath yet!)  -  We ( meaning our society)
is faced with a generation of students who either won't or can't face
responsibility for their own actions.  Just ask any middle school, upper
elementary teacher who doesn't have your child.  Many times we have to
spend hours just talking to the student to help them understand that
they won't be disliked if they tell the truth.  A plain and simple truth
which just hinders much of their success in school and life.  
Children also do not need teachers who fill their lives with personal
wisdom, but with guidance into learning and possibilities for their
future.  Students amazingly teach one another and themselves in spite of
all our failings in the school system.  In spite of all the negative
rhetoric that goes on about education and all that it involves, we still
have many beautiful successful young people.  That credit goes to
parents who are in the business of parenting their children such as you
have described in former conversations regarding your six year old!
Keep it up.  Just don't drown in those snow banks!  Hope things are
meltingly better in Fargo!
Lori
CC: Matt Smith
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