PE> EH>  FM> No I didn't know that. I'm surprised that you saw a
tab (which is
PE> EH>  FM> actually #9, #12 is FF) in my message. I don't normally type

PE> EH> Indeed: tab is ctrl-I is #9, FF is ctrl-L = #12.

PE> EH> According to FTS-0001 BOTH are illegal in packets, though.

PE> Please quote FTS-1, that should be good for a laugh.

FM> I really would prefer not to go back in that sort of aggressive way. For

Oh.  That wasn't the agressive one, the agressive one was:

Look you stupid fuckwit, before you go around quoting standards,
why don't you read the fucking thing yourself?

I'm not sure what you actually want me to do.  The answer is as
I gave, "Please quote the bit that says that".  All I can do is
say that I have read it and cannot find the bit that says that,
please quote the bit that says it.

FM> my part *I'm* trying to get to understand this, and for his, if indeed
FM> he is wrong I really don't think that's the way to get him to see it, or
FM> get co-operation on other things in future.

FM> What *does* FTS-1 say on the subject?

Nothing at all, although 0x00 is not allowed, and 0x01 is used
for kludges, and 0x0d and 0x0a is used for line termination.

PE> EH> A packet consists of:
PE> EH> printable chars in the range 32-126 (for text and the text fields in
PE> EH> header)

PE> Yeah?  Quote please.  Wrong again.

FM> Presumably that will be the same quote, on what's allowed and what's
FM> not?

The onus is on him to find something non-existant.  Just like god.

PE> EH> And that is it. No other control chars, no "chars >
126", except for
PE> this
PE> EH> #141 (and of course the binary bytes and words in the binary fields of
PE> the
PE> EH> header).

PE> Quote please.

FM> And again. I wish you'd just said what it is.

There isn't, it isn't, it's imaginary, it's not real, or I'm blind,
take your pick.

PE> Don't generate #141 at all.  Only dickheads generate that.  Have
PE> a look at what percentage of your incoming messages have them.
PE> Very, very few.  Note that you are not allowed to generate #141
PE> as a soft-CR if you use SOT/EOT.  You are allowed to use it as a
PE> national character (it's part of the Russian alphabet, e.g.).

FM> As it happens, and what prompted this whole discussion in the first
FM> place, I'm seeing them more and more often recently. I thought initially

I've checked PKT2QWK, and it used to strip them, but I stopped 
it from doing that, but didn't do the extra step of only stripping
them if there was an SOT/EOT present.  In actual fact, 0x8d is
used, even without SOT/EOT to mean both a national character and
a soft-CR.  In MSGED I made it so that it would only strip 0x8d if 
there was an SOT in there, putting the onus on wogs to use SOT/EOT.

FM> in international echoes, but now I see a few people in, for example,
FM> Z3_Tech also with 141s in their message. And they aren't Russian!

Old software, or new software not configured properly.  Good luck
in your talks with the people generating them.

FM> What I really would like to know is whether FTS-anything says "don't
FM> put/leave 141s in your outgoing messages as soft CRs" - then I can

It doesn't say that.  But it doesn't say you must put them in, and
most don't, they do not serve any purpose at all.  You can't demand
that people take them out, but you can ask them to.  In MSGED

FM> suggest that people change their software. Or that it says "141's may
FM> represent soft CRs in messages" - then I can change PKT2QWK.

It says exactly that.  You can change PKT2QWK if you want.  You
probably only need to uncomment some code, do a grep -i 8d *.*.

PE> EH> Both is possible. They ARE allowed in .PKT's but when
"tossing" those
PE> you
PE> EH> MAY strip them if you do not want them.

PE> So long as you don't alter in-transit mail, you may replace all
PE> occurrences of "shit" with "sh*t" if that's what
turns you on.

FM> But what does that mean in the specific context of my question? And if

They are allowed, and you are allowed to strip them before putting
them into your messagebase.  

FM> you weren't altering mail how could you change shit to sh1t?

Your messagebase is yours.  You are not allowed to strip them before
passing them to your downlinks.  BFN.  Paul.
@EOT:

---