On 03-23-97 MICHAEL DOYLE wrote to KENNETH NEWMAN... 
 
 MD> It is my firm believe that the many insults flung about cyberspace 
 MD> would 
 MD> never occur in face-to-face discussions,  What ever happened to 
 MD> ettiquette, decorum, and politeness? 
        I was going to ask you that, Michael. Seriously, you know 
        better than to be caught up in this game with Steve and I 
        expect the both of you to cut it out. 
 
 MD> I think I've seem Zappa live maybe, oh, 5 times, and have been "into" 
 MD> him since I was 17, so I guess I qualify .  In '73 at 
 MD> Carnegie(sp?) Mellon U., he chased Ruth Underwood all over the stage 
 MD> mock-trying to get her to take off her top.  They played some music 
 MD> too. 
 
        The George and Ruth band was my favourite incarnation. 
        The time I saw them at UMBC in Catonsville, Maryland in 
        1974 (10th anniversary tour) was probably the best 
        concert I've ever been to. The stuff from 1973 with Ponty 
        was also primo but unfortunately very little has made it 
        to vinyl or CD except as ROIO's. Zappa's roio of 
        _Picantique_ was welcome but I wish we had something of 
        better sound quality. The _Lost Episode_ cuts are nice, 
        but only whet my appetite for a full show with George and 
        Ruth and Jean-Luc. 
 
 MD> IMHO, Zappa was as much or perhaps even more of a comedic 
 MD> genius than a musical one. 
 
        I never really liked his comedy, not after puberty, 
        anyway. Too peurile for my tastes, I guess, and perhaps a 
        might too shallow. And mean. But I groove on the straight 
        music, especially the more jazz influenced stuff. 
 
 MD> Zappa started a lot of good people off: Ponty, George Duke, Adrian 
 MD> Belew, Steve Vai, ............. 
 
        Well, Ponty had already made it in France and Switzerland 
        and was well on the way to a solid jazz career in the US 
        (with Duke as sideman, btw) when he joined up with Zappa, 
        mainly because Sugarcane Harris wasn't into doing too 
        much more with Zappa (which is kind of a shame, it would 
        have been cool if Harris had joined as a full member, 
        IMO, but then again, I'm a big Sugarcae fan). Duke had a 
        respectable if unamazing jazz career. I have a solo album 
        he did before joining Zappa and it's a decent, solid 
        album As for Belew, he was in Bowie's touring band before 
        Frank and was well on his way to being the hot young 
        guitarist of the moment regardless of what he did with 
        Zappa. But he did do it for Steve Vai, Mike Keneally, 
        Patrick O'Hearn, etc. But Ian Underwood and Don Preston 
        have respectable careers in their own right. 
 
        I was always under the impression that Zappa thought of 
        musicians the way Hitchcock thought of actors, basically 
        as cattle to be hired and directed. 
 
 MD> and resurrented some has-beens such as 
 MD> Turtles Flo & Eddie (Their real names escape me at the moment .. 
 MD> wait... Howie Kaylyn? and, uh, geez....................) 
 
        Mark Volman and Howard Kaylan had a very solid career as 
        backup singers post-Turtles and pre-Zappa, something they 
        continued during their time in MOI and after. They are 
        all over many pop songs of the early 70's, often 
        uncredited but very distinctively present if you know 
        what to look for, just like Aynsly Dunbar played drums 
        all over the place, though often uncredited. They were 
        real cream of the crop studio talent. 
 
                                Cheers, 
                                Kenneth 
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