--- Sez George Erdner to David Marheine ---
 DM> Now if Mr. BJ were to pump his paean to onanism, "Captain Jack", up
 DM> into a concept album-cum Broadway musical, maybe he'd earn a little
 DM> more Prog credibility.
 GE> With whom does Billy Joel need to "earn" Prog credibility? The
 GE> Prog-Rock Police?
No, no, no, the Police AREN'T Prog, Stewart Copland notwithstanding.
As to BJ, does he "need" to earn ANYTHING?  Certainly not from me,
which is fortunate, since I find his music almost universally
obnoxious.  Early Elton John, OTOH, I still quite enjoy.  But I also
find many "Prog" bands largely annoying too, Rush and Kansas being
two prime examples...
 GE> Regardless of how non-Prog the vast majority of his catalog is, the
 GE> songs "Ballad of Billy the Kid" and, to a lesser degree "Captain Jack"
 GE> SOUND as much like Prog-Rock songs as most of the music created by
 GE> "certified" Prog-Rock bands like Gentle Giant and Yes.
"Most"?  Even though I kinda like "CJ", I don't see it.  But I'll take
your word on the Billy The Kid song and assume it sounds like a cross
between "Hoedown" and "The Sheriff" from _Trilogy_...
 GE> If you go strictly by the sound of the songs, and forget about
 GE> mythical "Prog credibility", "The Ballad of Billy the Kid" comes much
 GE> closer to the definition of Prog-Rock than "I've Seen All Good People"
 GE> by Yes.
Why is "Prog credibility" mythical if "the definition of Prog-Rock"
or even a Prog "sound" is not?  Doesn't each merely signify a consensus
of fan and/or critical opinion?  Anyway, I certainly wouldn't say
anybody needs to "earn credibility" in order to make good music.
That's the same B.S. that leads kids to complain their favorite band
has "sold out" as soon as they start making a little money.  
On the other hand, sincerity and credibility are difficult to quantify,
but they're arguably among the more important ingredients an artist
can bring to a piece of music.  But the "punk" and "metal" communities
seem to be much more hung up on whether somebody is a "True" whatever
or merely a "Poser".  Personally, I thought it was laughable that
they took the Grammy away from Milli Vanilli just because the music
on the disc wasn't actually performed by the guys pictured on the
front cover.  I mean, it still sounded the same.  It still sold as
many units.  What if it came out that LeAnn Rimes is really
41 years old?  There'd be another class action suit by people who
feel duped into buying not just a tape or CD but a whole fairy tale
that the music doesn't sound the same without...  As long as you can
fake sincerity you've got it made.
 GE> There's so little Prog-Rock out there in the first place, why does
 GE> everyone reject discussion of Prog-Rock songs by artists who don't
 GE> limit themselves to that genre exclusively, yet embrace discussion of
 GE> artists who only do Prog-Rock but that no one has ever heard of (much
 GE> less heard)?
I guess I haven't noticed any rejection of discussion of particular
songs.  OK, maybe a little.  FWIW, I agree about "Funeral For A Friend/
Love Lies Bleeding".  But where Billy Joel is concerned, a lack
of discussion may simply imply a lack of interest.  If you wanna talk
about something, go ahead.  But it's not censorship if the only people
interested enough to reply are those with divergent opinions.  If there
was a Fido Rap echo, I wouldn't bother trying to sell the idea that
"We Didn't Start The Fire" comes closer to the definition of Rap than
Grand Master Flash's "The Message" even if I felt it was the case...
As to Prog Rock bands "no one has ever heard of", how else are we going
hear about them?  Wait for freeform FM radio to come back?  Wait for
satellite/cable/Internet everything-for-everybody-all-the-time digital
music delivery systems to become available?  I had not heard any Marillion
when I started reading this echo, but now I have a couple of their LP's.
They're not making me forget about _Selling England By The Pound_, but
they're okay.  And I've got a few Gong and Ozric Tentacles CD's I wouldn't
have bought without recommendations and discussions from here as well.
I even owned an echolyn CD briefly.  Plus I saw a Porcupine Tree CD
at an ordinary every day domestic price that I may buy the next time I
have the Itch and money in my pocket.  In turn, I try to share information
and ideas about well known and obscure music in my own collection...
But when I wanna talk country-rock or power pop or folk or blues, there's
other echoes where these and other genres are on Topic...
Well, enough blather for now.  TTYL.
DM
... Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand ...
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