From: "Rod Gasson" 

"Bob Lawrence" 
wrote in message
news:1087233655{at}p12.f610.n712.z3.ftn...

>
> > You transfer *money* on the net?? (amazed!)
>
> RG> Shit yeah. I do all all of our banking online (except cash
> RG> withdrawalls). I also use my credit card quite extensively for
> RG> online purchases too. It is no more risky than doing our
> RG> quartly BAS statements (and payments) online.
>
>  You do your Tax online?? (amazed!)

If something can be done online then that's the way I do it.  Only yesterday
I re-registered my car online.

> Do you *want* your private details to leak?

Firstly I only send 'sensitive' information (CC details, tax records, etc)
if the link is encrypted.
Secondly, I thik privacy is grossly overrated. I have nothing to hide. I
someone wants to know our earnings for the last financial year I'm more than
happy to tell them (as long as they have good reason).

My name, address, phone number is online (yellow pages, white pages, our own
website, etc).
My birth and marriage details are all on public record (accessable online).

I use "Flybuys" wherever I can, which means people can track what
I buy, and
how often, and if that isn't enough, if anyone really want to know, I wear
blue underwear.

> RG> Oh, we also ACCEPT online credit card payments for the services
> RG> we offer.
>
>  Of course. Why not? What have you got to lose? Get the money first,
> then send the stuff. I'm talking about it from the consumer's point of
> view... not the seller's.

So was I.

Seriously, for the CONSUMER there is NO RISK in using credit cards online
(or via the phone).
For the SELLER (the person accepting CC payments) the risks are MASSIVE.
If there is ever a dispute regarding CC transactions the Banks ALWAYS side
with the consumer. The seller is left holding the bag.   This has happened
to us.

Last May, someone ordered an item from our webstore, paid by CC (went
through ok), we sent the goods REGISTERED mail (as we insist on doing with
all CC orders). Two months later we noticed the transaction was reversed
(the bank took the funds out of our account and gave it back to the buyer).
A couple of days later we got a letter from the bank informing us of this
'chargeback' (Along with a $25 chargeback 'fee'), and a request that we fax
them all the relevent details of this transaction because the customer had
disputed it.

We complied with their request, and sent the original order details, along
with the registered mail delivery form (to the same address as the address
on record for the cardholder). Two weeks later we got another letter from
the bank informing us that "The cardholder STILL disputed the transaction"
and that as far as they were concerned the matter was now closed (Leaving us
out of pocket on the original purchase price, plus the chargeback fee).

I called the local police to ask what I could do in regards to filing
charges for either mail order or credit card fraud, and was told that they
'weren't interested' becuase the amount was so low (About $50 total).   My
only option was to go through the small claims court, which would cost me
another $75 (to recover $50).

In the end, I phoned the number of the person that made the purchace, ended
up speaking with a 15yo kid, and I eventually got him to slip up and admit
that HE placed the order using his mothers credit card.  I then managed to
bluff him into thinking that if he didn't reimburse us for the purchase
price and the chargeback fee he'd be facing criminal charges.  A week later
he sent us a money order.

The point however is that if I didn't manage to put the shits up this kid we
would have been out of pocket in spite of having evidence that the goods
ordered were delivered to the address of the cardholder.

It is a TRIVIAL task for ANYONE to order ANYTHING with ANYONES credit card
(even their own) and even have it delivered to their home address, and then
one single phone call to the bank/CCcompany and it is the SELLER that ends
up bearing the costs.

The Cardholder/consumer carrys no risk at all.  The Merchant is the one
taking ALL the risks.
(The story above is true in every respect).

> RG> It really isn't any less secure than going to your bank and
> RG> making a deposit. You get a recipt number just the same.
>
>  No... you *actually* get a receipt, with a signature on it, a piece
> of paper that will stand up in court if it comes to that.

You also get a reciept with most online banking transactions too. The
signature of some employee that has recently been fired or left isn't worth
the paper it is written on.

The online reciepts all have a unique number that can easily be
traced/referenced, so onless some bank employee has managed to modify the
computer records these are actually more of a 'legal document' than a slip
of paper that has had something scribbled on it by anyone.

> RG> The only difference is that if you go to the bank, your money
> RG> (and/or relevent paperwork) sits on some tellers desk for the
> RG> rest of the day before someone enters the details into the
> RG> banks computers which at thwe end of the day is transfered VIA
> RG> THE internet to the banks central storage facility.
>
>  Any loss is theirs.. and in any case, banks don't use the Internet
> as such.

You need to keep up with the times Bob.  What you say is/was true 5-10 years
ago, but these days, the Westpac Bank (and probably many others) do use the
regular Internet links just like the rest of us.   If they don't, there has
been a couple of really strange coincidences in the last 12 months (the last
one about two weeks ago), where our local branch had to do everything by pen
and paper on the very same day there were known Internet connectivity
problems that affected our own servers too.

> RG> With online banking and transfers, etc that you do is
> RG> IMMEDIATELY send to the centralised computer. There is no
> RG> teller to fuck things up for you, no papers to get lost in the
> RG> shuffle, therefore it is ultimately a lot safer than physically
> RG> going to the bank.
>
>  So you say... until soemthign goes wrong. Come back and tell me
> then.

I started using online banking way back when they had their own dialin
lines. I moved over to internet banking as soon as it became available
(8-10years ago?).  During all that time I've not once had any problem.  That
isn't to say that I will NEVER have a problem, but it hasn't happened yet,
and if/when it DOES happen I am pretty confident I'd have a better chance of
having things put right than I would if I had some hand written
deposit/payment slip with a signature that is indistinqushable from a kidies
scribble, and MAYBE a smudged stamp of dubious authenticity to denote the
bank where the transaction was made.

> RG> Oh, you don't get mugged online either.
>
>  How do you get cash, then? Do you have a little printer on the side
> of your box, or what?

Please re-read my first paragraph.

Cheers
Rod.


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