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echo: bible-study
to: All
from: Matthew Johnson
date: 2005-01-10 20:09:00
subject: Re: Top Ten Reasons to Re

In article , Nasir Malik says...
>
>1. Mark 12:29 Jesus said "Here, O Israel: The Lord our God is one
>Lord."
>[This confirms that Jesus preached to worship One and Only God,

Yes...

> not trinity.

No. That One God _is_ Trinity.

>2. John 20:17 Jesus said I ascend to my God and your God. 
>[Jesus has a God according to him; we know that God can't have a God?]

What are you talking about? The one God is the same. When He says "my God and
your God", He is emphasizing His own humanity.

>3. John 8:28 Jesus said, "I do nothing of myself" 
>[Can a God be this dependant?]

Again, He is speaking in reference to His humanity. He is reassuring them that
_everything_ He is doing is of God.

>4. John 14:28 Jesus said, "My Father (GOD) is greater than I am" 
>[So, how can Jesus himself be a God?]

Quite simply. Or at least it _would_ be simple if you did not tamper with
Scripture by putting in WRONG parenthetical comments!

The original verse, W/O your shameful tampering, is:

   You heard me say to you, 'I go away, and I will come to you.'
   If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to
   the Father; for the Father is greater than I.  (Joh 14:28 RSVA)

Now how can the Father be greater than the Son in the Trinity? There are two
ways. Either yet again, as I have already pointed out, He could be speaking in
reference to His humanity, OR, He could be referring to the greatness of the
Father as the font of all divinity in the Trinity. This clearly makes the Father
'greater' than the Son.

>5. Luke 23:46 Jesus said "Father (GOD), into thy hands I commend my
>spirit"
>[God does not have spirit like Jesus did.]

What _are_ you talking about? Of _course_ the Incarnate Word has a fully human
spirit. For He is both fully God and fully Man all at once. But men have human
spirits, so the Son of God must have a fully human spirit too.

It is the human spirit of Christ that Christ is commending to the Father.

>6. Matthew 24:36 Jesus told his followers that no one (including
>Jesus) knows when the judgment day will come, only GOD knows.
>[Or Jesus was lying to his followers, if he was God?]

Again, you have got yourself confused by your tampering  with Scripture.

>7. John 5:30 Jesus told his followers that he couldn't do a single
>thing of his own.
>[When a God became this helpless?]

He is NOT talking about 'helplessness'. He is talking about the synergy between
hum and divine will in Christ. The human will of Christ is in completely willing
and free submission/subjection to the divine will, without which He does
nothing.

>8. John 5:32 Jesus told his followers that they have never seen GOD at
>anytime nor ever heard his voice.
>[Or Jesus was lying again here, if he was God?]

Now you have got yourself even more confused. What makes you think He is talking
to his followers here? He is NOT. He is talking to Judeans who were impressed by
His miracles, but still doubt that He is "the bread that came down
from heaven".

>9. Luke 5:16 Jesus prays to God. 
>[Funny, if Jesus was God, then why he is praying to God? Since when
>and how a God has a God?]

Perhaps if you had not got yourself so badly confused on the other verses
mentioned above, you could understand this one too: prayer is a human activity,
Christ has a _full_ human nature, so it is by that nature that He prays.

>10. Matthew 26:39 Jesus fell on his face and prayed to his GOD like
>Muslims do.
>[How would you explain this from the very Bible?]

How often do we need to repeat ourselves before you get the point? Prayer is a
human activity, naturally good for humans. So of _course_, being fully human, He
prays.

>Bonus!
>
>John 17:3 and the Only True God!
>
>And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God,
>and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

And you consistently refuse to recognize what He means by 'sent'. This is not
just _any_ sending!

[snip]

>So, how can Christians' add (27) twenty-seven forged books of New
>Testament (34 books of Catholics) to create their man-god, while
>disregarding the above explicit verses?

We do not "create" Him, rather it is He who reveals Himself to
us, as was so
well explained in the verses you had to pass over in silence, namely:

   And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace
   and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the
   only Son from the Father.  (Joh 1:14 RSVA)

The 'problems' we have explaining all the verses you listed are all very small
compared to the problems _you_ have with this verse, or with the rest of Joh
1:1-18!


-- 
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quidquid boni habet, tribuat illi a quo factus est.
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