Salam Denise

> So then the title is indeed misleading, and the book isn't really for
> Jews, nor is it for any Christian

"How Islam Unites Jews and Christians" is another way of saying
"Judaism and Christianity are the parts and Islam is the Sum" or
"The transitional process of completing Scripture". My title is
vague enough to mean either viewpoint and touches on both.

> That being conceded, it should be noted that translation from one
> Semitic language to another can still be fraught with many of the
same
> problems present in any translation.

I would not go as far as to say that, the word "son" for example,
has more meanings in the Semitic language, but because of it's
limited meaning in the European languages, it has caused Monotheistic
split.

> For a fun example, I set up the
> following page:
>
> http://geocities.com/denis_giron/jesus-and-quran-in-psalms.html
>
> Semitic languages can bristle with problems (as the
> same sentence can be translated one way and be misinterpreted as a
> reference to Jesus, or translated another way and be misinterpreted
as
> a reference to the Qur'an).

Your right that humans can make mistakes, especially without the proper
context, no one language can be translated perfectly, that has been a
long time affirmation by me.

> So this brings me back to my point: are you
> willing to concede that all the Qur'anic quotes attributed to
> individuals who probably didn't speak Qur'anic Arabic (such as Jesus,
> Zu'l-Qarnain, Pharaoh, et cetera) are also "mere translations"?

Absolutely not :-)  Simply because to have a translation, you need a
translator. God in the Quran is the one saying it, so it's not a
translation because it's not being recalled by a translator.  God is
reciting to us exactly what was said, even if initially it was said in
a different language, humans cannot perfectly interpret, God can.

This is made clear by conversation with Jesus in the Quran:

"And when Allah will say: O Jesus son of Mary! did you say to men,
Take me and my mother for two gods besides Allah he will say: Glory be
to Thee, it did not befit me that I should say what I had no right to
(say); if I had said it, Thou wouldst indeed have known it; Thou
knowest what is in my mind, and I do not know what is in Thy mind,
surely Thou art the great Knower of the unseen things." (Quran 5:116)

God knows every language perfectly, humans don't, we also know the
disciples of Jesus did not translate perfectly from Aramaic to Greek
because they made mistakes between themselves.

Lastly, quotes between Semitic languages was common because the Aramaic
speaking Jesus often quoted the Hebrew speaking Moses, what I would
like to know is, does the Arabic language have more depth and beauty
than the Hebrew or the extinct Aramaic? It would seem so since God
chose it over Hebrew to send his Final revelation.

> Your example only works if we *presuppose* that you are not John
> Stewart, and indeed, while we do presuppose such, to presuppose that
> Jesus was not God as part of an attempt to demonstrate that he was
not
> is simply fallacious. Therefore, this is where your analogy fails.

The one point your missing is "characteristics". I don't have the
characteristics of Jon Stewart, therefore one would not have any doubt
that I am not Jon Stewart, identically, Jesus did not have the
"characteristics" of God, therefore one did not have to presuppose
that he was just a mortal.

Everyone knew he was not God because when Jesus was captured to test
his immortality, his own students ran and hid, thus confirming that
they did not assume he was God.

> > Jesus repeatedly stated his
> > inferiority compared to God.
>
> Which would, therefore, either (a) be a reference to his human
nature,
> (b) show that Jesus is not identical to the Godhead in toto, (c)
> support a subordinationist doctrine, or (d) be some combination of
> (a-c). While (c) is in conflict with the classical doctrine of the
> Trinity, none of these four choices demonstrates that Jesus was not
> divine.

Actually (a) and (b) are in conflict with the Divinity of Jesus because
God never showed the hunger or fear that Jesus often displayed, and if
Jesus is not identical to God, (which no one is), then Jesus is not
God.

> You supported the position that the verb
> daHaahaa, referring to the earth in Soorat an-Naazi'aat 79:30, can be
> translated "he made it egg shaped". As I understand it, the verb can
> best be translated "he spread it out" (and most translations of the
> Qur'an seem to agree with this understanding). I have checked a bunch
> of Arabic dictionaries, and could not find a single one that had a
verb
> drawn from the dal-Haa-waw (dal-Haa-yaa?) root meaning "to make egg
> shaped". Is there any dictionary you can cite that gives the meaning
> "to make egg shaped" for the relevant verb?

I usually use the John Walid Arabic-English dictionary, I am not at
home to check, but I did look online and saw that some translations of
the Quran also use the "egg" / "oval" meaning:

http://www.masjidtucson.org/quran/noframes/ch79.html

Also a nice article was written on it here:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/earth_in_islam.htm

I believe it's a dual meaning word that either translation can be
right.  This is one of the many beauties of the Quran, we don't
conform it's meaning, it conforms our understanding, as time moves
forward, we are glad to learn better meanings of what the Quran stated
nearly 1,400 years ago. What I mean is that in Islam, translations can
come and go without Muslims giving a blink because translations are
secondary in Islam, whereas in Christianity, translations are primary,
thus causing entire Christian groups to split up (i.e. the Mormons who
call their Bible the "divine translation because it was revealed
English) or the KJV only advocates, etc.. Translations are essential to
over 90% of Christians as a primary source of guidance because they
don't know nor intend to know ancient Greek, and even if they did
learn it, they still would not have the original verbal Aramaic.
Peace

Mohamed Ghounem
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