kk> Pythagoras ( -> Plato -> Aristotle) accepted the idea that the earth was
 kk> a sphere, but not for the most empirical of reasons.  He simply believed
 kk> that the sphere was the most perfect of geometric shapes, ergo that
 kk> would be a nice shape for the earth to have.  They also had _some_
 kk> empirical data -- the moon and sun are circles, and if you have really
 kk> sharp eyes, features on the moon suggest a sphere. So it was no great
 kk> leap to assume the earth was a sphere.
 FR> Right, but Eratosthenes knew it was a sphere using sticks and shadows at
 FR> the bottom of wells.  In one of my write-up about Christopher Columbus,
 FR> I have:
 FR> Pythagoras of Samos, 560-480 BCE;  Aristotle, 384-322 BCE.
 FR> The Greek's world wasn't flat.  Eratosthenes would have used different
 FR> geometry calculations if he had thought the Earth was flat.  Pythagoras
 FR> and Aristotle before him knew the Earth was a sphere.  Educated people
 FR> of Europe, Spain, and Portugal all knew that the Earth wasn't flat.
 FR> [2] The Earth's circumference is 24,902 miles.  The Greeks had come
 FR> within 10% to 15% of this value (being off by 2,500 to some 3,750
 FR> miles.)  It wasn't until 1615 that Dutch mathematician Willebrord van
 FR> Roijen SNELL derived a value optically to within 5% of the actual size
 FR> (being off by some 1,250 miles.)  Columbus's "lord," however, gave him
 FR> several guesses -- all of them much too short!  No wonder Columbus
 FR> missed:  He worshipped a lying god.
   This is a perfect example of the Goebbels method of including the big lie
in a perfect system of truths.  Since Columbus was not perfect in his
geography and he WAS a devout Christian as were most of the scientists far
beyond the period of his voyages, ergo, he was a kind of fool.  I'm surprised
you didn't point out that he was also a lousy administrator because he was.
Why NOT knock him down further.  For all of his troubles and even the
near-conciousness (when he saw the fresh waters of the Orinoco on the third
voyage) that he was in "another world" his "masters" deprived him of his 
pay"
and his heirs only inherited a small strip of land along the Honduran coast.
You can score big with modern bigots by attacking him.  
Sincerely, 
                                     Frank
                                                                              
                                                       
--- PPoint 2.05
 mb> One person posts this crap, and now "most" Christians think this or that
 mb> because of it.  How quaint your prejudice, it is.
 FR> I'm sure you would like to pretend that such bigotry isn't a fundamental
 FR> aspect of Christianity yet you will need to ignore all of Christianity's
 FR> history to do so.  Every hate organization in the United States is
 FR> comprised of theists; nearly all of them Christian organizations with
 FR> the rest being Muslim or Jewish.
mb> Very prejudiced, indeed.
 FR> Very illiterate, indeed.  I'll make some assumptions about your
 FR> ambiguous commentary and then I'll note that you decided it was best not
 FR> to point out any aspect of my summation which was in the least bit
 FR> "inaccurate" or "sadly mistaken."  That was probably very wise of you.
 FR> And I'll also note that you thought it best not to try to come up with
 FR> any non-religious hate organization in operation in the United States.
 FR> That was also probably very wise of you.
 FR> The KKK, Aryan Nations, Church of Jesus Christ Christian, all the
 FR> so-called "Identity" groups, all the Reconstructionists, all the
 FR> homophpobic groups, all the anti-women groups, the Sword and the Cross,
 FR> the Promise Keeper cult, they're _all_ Christian hate groups.
 FR> And once again you couldn't bring yourself to deny this truth.  I have a
 FR> fairly large list of religious hate organizations in operation in the
 FR> United States.  I have searched for a little under a year now for any
 FR> hate group which is atheistic.
 FR> If you know of any, do try to name them.  Thanks.
 FR> By their fruits ye shall know them. The history of Christianity is full
 FR> of fruits.
mb> You have a prejudiced theory about the history of Christianity.
 FR> Actually, I have always allowed Christians to speak for themselves. It
 FR> is most certain that the most accurate understanding of what a cult is
 FR> about comes straight from the believers in the cult and their actions.
 mb> Certainly you can cite myriads of episodes of ignorant pseudo-christian
 mb> bigotry, but these things have ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with
 mb> Christianity - they instead have everything to do with human stupidity.
 FR> Certainly each and every evil Christian tyrant down through history
 FR> won't simply disappear just because you don't like to hear the truth.
 FR> It is an undeniable fact that what a club stands for is determined not
 FR> by what the club advocates, but by what it does.
 FR> (Read that over and over again until you understand it.)
 FR> And I might add that you can't join the KKK and then demand you're not a
 FR> racist.  If that analogy remains unclear, I'll fill in the blanks: If
 FR> you willingly join an evil cult knowing full well what the cult stands
 FR> for, you are in agreement with it.  And if _that_ remains unclear, I'll
 FR> try again:  If you're a Christian who knows what the history of your
 FR> cult is, you are in agreement with what it stands for.
 FR> Pretending Christianity's history doesn't exist is silly.
   Since I don't claim to be "Christian" I'll answer this bigotry head on.
The ACTUAL history of Christianity is very much like the Christian symbolism
of "the way of the Cross" (Chardin among others).  Any historian worth 
er/his
salt refrains from trying to "wow" people by slanting history.  The ACTUAL
history of Christianity contains a record of enormous prejudice and murder
right alongside of a history of unparalleled kindness, protection of the less
fortunate and a host of other great deeds.  
   Signed: another Silly one.
Sincerely, 
                                     Frank
                                                                              
                                                       
--- PPoint 2.05
---------------