Matthew Johnson wrote:
> In article , basicallyblues says...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Matthew wrote:
> >>And in ALL of these examples, the vision was of a _reality_. SO
these
> >>examples
> >>do NOT support you. These examples support _our_ contention that
> >>James & Peter
> >>really _did_ see Moses and Elijah on the mountain-top.
> >
> >basicallyblues writes:
> >LOL. Oh really? So the "vessel" that Peter saw
"descending like a
great
> >linen sheet...in it were all sorts of four-footed creatures and
> >creeping things of the earth and birds of heaven" at Acts 10:11, 12
> >truly existed? You really believe these  animals truly descended in
> >fleshly form from heaven during this vision? Matthew you are having
a
> >vision of your own here. You are simply trying to hold onto a
incorrect
> >theory here.
>
> Actually, I think Bart's response to this was good enough.
>
> >James & peter "saw" a vision of Moses and Elijah.
>
> That would be correct, if you understood the right sense of the word
'vision'
> here...
>
> > Only in that sense did they see them.
>
> No. This is where you go beyond the text of Scripture to force it
into your
> narrow-minded theology.
>
> >Moses and Elijah were in the graves awaiting a
> >resurrection at that time.
>
> Absolutely not! The whole point of showing Moses in the vision is to
show that
> He who resurrected Moses from the grave for this vision could easily
resurrect
> Himself after three days in the tomb.
>
> And as I have pointed out before, Elijah, like Enoch did not taste
death. So no,
> he was NEVER in the grave.
>
> >"Moreover no man has ascended to heaven except the one who
descended,
> >the Son of Man." (John 3:13) Jesus said these words hundreds of
years
> >after Moses and Elijah had died.
>
> No, because Elijah, like Enoch never did die.
>
> >When they died they did not go to the
> >spiritual haven with God because "NO MAN HAS ASCENDED TO
HEAVEN" as
of
> >writing circa 32-33 c.e.
>
> Just as "no one has seen God"? But I forget: you interpreted that
> overly-literally, too -- even though that did not spare you from
contradicting
> Scripture either.

It is true that Enoch did not "ascend" to heaven; he was taken. Gen
5:24; Hebrews 11:5. Elijah went up to heaven, but was taken also, by
firey chariot. 2 Kings 2:11. Neither "ascended" which implies something
they did themselves. Thus, scripture remains intact and true.

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