>LOL. Oh really? So the "vessel" that Peter saw "descending like a
great
>linen sheet...in it were all sorts of four-footed creatures and
>creeping things of the earth and birds of heaven" at Acts 10:11, 12
>truly existed? You really believe these  animals truly descended in
>fleshly form from heaven during this vision? Matthew you are having a
>vision of your own here. You are simply trying to hold onto a
incorrect
>theory here.

>Actually, I think Bart's response to this was good enough.

What you "think" hold little weight here. The Biblical accounts trump
your opinion.

>James & peter "saw" a vision of Moses and Elijah.

>That would be correct, if you understood the right sense of the word
>'vision'

LOL! Where's your evidence? You quote one lexico, which does not deny
that one of the "definitions" of "horama" is
"supernatural vision". I
have given you a definition from lexicons PLUS Biblical proof- actual
bonafide passages where the word "horama" is used. ALL supporting the
use of the word as "supernatural vision". Where is your evidence? All
you do is say I'm wrong. Any objective jury would have ZERO respect for
your testimony. Zero.

Here are Biblical examples of "horama" AGAIN. You keep ignoring them
and pretending they don't exist but they do.

If you check the usage of "horama" (the very word used at Matthew 17:9
concerning what Peter and James saw. You will clearly see- or actually
an honest-hearted, objective person will see-
the word is used as a supernatural vision.

"There was a certain disciple in Damscas named Ananias and the Lord
said to him in a vision (hORAMA); "Here I am Lord!"" (Acts 9:10)

Matthew 17:9 Vision (horama) = supernatural vision
Acts 9:12 Vision (horama) = supernatural vision
Acts 10:3 vision (horama) = supernatural vision.
Acts 10:17 same
Acts 10:19 same
Acts 11:5 same
Acts 12:9 same
Acts 16:9,10 same
Acts 18:9 same
Acts 26:19 same
Rev. 9:17 same

>No. This is where you go beyond the text of Scripture to force it into
your
>narrow-minded theology.

Where is your evidence Matthew? I showed actual Biblical proof. All you
offer is Matthew's baseless, puerile opinions.

>And as I have pointed out before, Elijah, like Enoch did not taste
death. >So no, he was NEVER in the grave.

At Hebrews 11:5 Enoch is listed among the xamples of men who had great
faith (verses 4-11). IN verse 13 the Bible says "All these died in
faith...." Enoch is included among those who died. Enoch died. Elijah
died. Both were in Sheol- the grave of mankind.

>"Moreover no man has ascended to heaven except the one who descended,
>the Son of Man." (John 3:13) Jesus said these words hundreds of years
>after Moses and Elijah had died.

>No, because Elijah, like Enoch never did die.

You lie against Holy Scripture Matthew. Shame on you! For your sake I
hope this is not equivalent to "lying to to the holy spirit" for that
is not forgiven. Truth is more important than your opinions.

Once again John 3:13 says *****"MOREOVER NO MAN HAS ASCENDED TO HEAVEN
EXCEPT.....THE SON OF MAN"*****. Elijah did NOT ascend to the spiritual
heaven and neither did Enoch and neither did Moses.

>When they died they did not go to the
>spiritual haven with God because "NO MAN HAS ASCENDED TO HEAVEN" as of
>writing circa 32-33 c.e.

>Just as "no one has seen God"?

Right no man has seen God. You want to lie against the Bible again and
deny this verse?

>But I forget: you interpreted that
>overly-literally, too -- even though that did not spare you from
contradicting
>Scripture either.

Wrong. You just don't understand the context of scripture. Moses did
not literally see God. If you believe he did than you must think the
Bible contradicts itself.

((( s.r.c.b-s is a moderated group.  All posts are approved by a moderator. )))
(((   Read http://srcbs.org for details about this group BEFORE you post.   )))


--- UseNet To RIME Gateway {at} 3/22/05 4:00:27 PM ---